The Downsides To Looking Pretty: Discrimination Against Beautiful Women

While I’m no Elle Macpherson, I’m tall, slim, blonde and, so I’m often told, a good-looking woman. I know how lucky I am. But there are downsides to being pretty — the main one being that other women hate me for no other reason than my lovely looks.

If you’re a woman reading this, I’d hazard that you’ve already formed your own opinion about me — and it won’t be very flattering. For while many doors have been opened (literally) as a result of my looks, just as many have been metaphorically slammed in my face — and usually by my own sex.

I’m not smug and I’m no flirt, yet over the years I’ve been dropped by countless friends who felt threatened if I was merely in the presence of their other halves. If their partners dared to actually talk to me, a sudden chill would descend on the room.

And it is not just jealous wives who have frozen me out of their lives. Insecure female bosses have also barred me from promotions at work.

And most poignantly of all, not one girlfriend has ever asked me to be her bridesmaid.

You’d think we women would applaud each other for taking pride in our appearances. I work at mine — I don’t drink or smoke, I work out, even when I don’t feel like it, and very rarely succumb to chocolate.

Unfortunately, women find nothing more annoying than someone else being the most attractive girl in a room.

In my early 20s, when I first started in television as a researcher, one female boss in her late 30s would regularly invite me over for dinner after a long day in the office.

I always accepted her invitation, as during office hours we got along famously. But one evening her partner was at home. We were all a couple of glasses of wine into the evening. Then he and I said we both liked the song we were listening to.

She laid into her bewildered partner for ‘fancying’ me, then turned on me, calling me unrepeatable names before ridiculing me for dying my hair and wearing lipstick. I declined any further invitations.

Therapist Marisa Peer, author of self-help guide Ultimate Confidence, says that women have always measured themselves against each other by their looks rather than achievements — and it can make the lives of the good-looking very difficult.

‘Many of my clients are models, yet people are always astounded when I explain they don’t have it easy,’ she says. If you are attractive other women think you lead a perfect life — which simply isn’t true.

‘They don’t realise you are just as vulnerable as they are. It’s hard when everyone resents you for your looks. Men think “what’s the point, she’s out of my league” and don’t ask you out. And women don’t want to hang out with someone more attractive than they are.’

I certainly found that out the hard way, particularly in the office.

One contract I accepted was blighted by a jealous female boss. It was the height of summer and I’d opted to wear knee length, cap-sleeved dresses. They were modest, yet pretty; more Kate Middleton than Katie Price.

But my boss pulled me into her office and informed me my dress style was distracting her male employees. I didn’t dare point out that there were other women in the office wearing similar attire.

Rather than argue, I worked out the rest of my contract wearing baggy, sombre-coloured trouser suits. It was clear that when you have a female boss, it’s best to let them shine, but when you have a male boss, it’s a different game: I have written in the Mail on how I have flirted to get ahead at work, something I’m sure many women do.

Women, however, are far more problematic. With one phenomenally tricky boss, I eventually managed to carve out a positive working relationship. But a year in, her attitude towards me changed; the deterioration began when she started to put on weight.

While the male executive signed the paperwork without hesitation, my immediate boss refused to sign. When I asked her right-hand woman why, she pulled me to one side and explained that my boss was jealous of me.

I find that older women are the most hostile to beautiful women — perhaps because they feel their own bloom fading.


AUTHOR: SAMANTHA BRICK | The Daily Mail Online

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Categories: Gender issues, People

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146 Comments on “The Downsides To Looking Pretty: Discrimination Against Beautiful Women”

  1. Anonymous
    April 4, 2012 at 7:41 pm #

    All one can say to this is she is very dillusional about herself , pretty yes beautiful no.

    Women are their own worst enemy, give me a good male friend anyday.

    • Sarveez
      August 16, 2012 at 2:04 am #

      Sorry Dude, my wife is a drop-dead gorgeous woman and she suffers IDENTICALLY to this woman, at work, in a bar, in a club, or just in the mall. Women hate other pretty women. Her problems stem from OTHER jealous women and no one else. She has non-jealous friends, but enough envy folows her too. YOU ARE THE DEUSIONAL one. Open your eyes!

      • Jessica
        August 23, 2012 at 10:30 am #

        Thank you Sarveez for having the courage to say that truth. So many people hate on beautiful women because they assume beautiful women get special treatments and some glamorous life. In all truth, the opposite occurs. Speaking for myself, so many people approach me as though I’m poison ivy. And if I’m able to actually get better acquainted with them, they later tell me that they had assumed from go that I was going to be a stuck-up snob or nasty. I don’t know why people allow themselves to indulge in these assumptions. And as far as jealous women in particular go, there is no hope. There hatred and envy is as primal as hunger for food and sex drive. When a women is intimidated by me, there is absolutely nothing I can do outside of humiliate myself to get her to treat me with the respect any human being deserves. There is no getting along with someone who refuses to get along with you. You know? Anyway, thank you for telling the truth of what you see and for choosing to refuse to jump on the hate wagon….

        • March 23, 2013 at 7:57 am #

          I agree that a lot of women give other women a hard time for being seen as “beautiful”. I’ve worked in the hospitality industry and often times were hated on by other women for being attractive.
          What I have learned is that you can kill those people with kindness.
          Sometimes it takes awhile but I’ve found that if you are beautiful AND full of integrity AND are a good person, other women will flock to you and want to be your friend. Teach people how to treat you by the way you treat others. I treat EVERYONE with the same amount of respect and love no matter what they look like and I remain humble on my own appearance. You are only truly beautiful if you are beautiful on the inside. Practice being nice and kind to everyone and you will find that more and more women will fall in love with you and will wanna be your best friend.. Just my 2 cents :)

          • keith
            March 26, 2013 at 4:21 am #

            This is very true and applies to me, however, that doesn’t work on a social level. I bend backwards to appreciate others and it does pay off – but only in private. No matter what you really are to them in private, they betray with screaming insults in public. They bail on relationships, breaking up with as many notaries in attendance to witness as possible, for the public record. It’s been clockwork for half century, twice a week at least, do the math that is thousands and thousands of times of trusted individuals (along with the occasional vain stranger that hasn’t even heard my voice; they all have the same immature tantrums, violating every social contract that they have known better before. They don’t have a clue that they are casting a negative pall over nice establishments. It is all about them, having never worked a room and therefore always been one on one with others, their lives being what can others do for them; it not being about the happiness of a group. Their cry-baby act gets old and the public disturbances are ultimately my fault according to other customers because I showed up with jerks who would do that.. It doesn’t matter how much one ingratiates and appreciates others. Not when it comes to them being seen with you. They get paranoid, overreact, think they “see” things and “hear” things that aren’t there, because their fears and imaginations take off. Anything to psychological justify their emotional outburst, their content totally illogical and inappropriate (why did they go out with me in the first place if you felt this way) and need to struggle and shake, difficulty excreting through every pore in their face and skull, not caring they are shitting on all the high paying strangers. Like scanners. It’s a screaming square-off at the watering hole, vying for attention of the opposite sex, and they prove why no one would want to be their friend, and feeling sorry for me. I always win, see? By going fifty years without calling anyone on it, and still appreciating their better qualities. None of this was ever even begun to get resolved for half a century because I just didn’t want to look at it. I never believed I was beautiful, cherishing talent and personality as more important qualities to me. Those were what I valued. I am stunned to find late in life that I was regarded as too beautiful for them. Stunned. They always had the need to paint me publicly as pariah. It appears this was the only real issue, with others made up on the spot to justify. It doesn’t matter what is real about me, only what is crucial for others to make others think,and once this started to happen on a tempestuous level professionally, I had no choice but to stop and finally figure out why this happens. It took another eight years to figure out it had nothing to do me at all, rather just purely physical aspects they must perceive as great. Hey, I never wanted to think that but in the end, my respect and appreciation of others gets thrown back in my face. I went fifty years never losing cool and patience, and even humor and charm. I do not insult or mistreat anyone in front of anyone, even in private. What they do makes everyone socially retarded. Doing that socially is cowardly, enlisting bullies on their side. But it becomes potentially physically violent and dangerous… they are picking fights and it is strenuous and shrill. Basically, you are idealistic, as I was… but they will still turn on you in front of strangers, if only in ways that they don’t let you see or hear. They have to constantly express disdain, petulance, and act like a drill sergeant and you’re a piece of shit they are wiping off the bottom of their shoe. Sooner or later, you get wise that if half of all those you’ve loved do this, then the other half are doing it out of your eye line. They are disgusting animals at this point, ravenous, and it doesn’t matter what really drives you, what your heart is, how many more dues you have paid than others in terms of public humiliation for a group’s happiness and the sake of others amusement, it doesn’t matter that you laid your life out for them even though they have nothing to do with your industry, therefore not an exploited relationship. When every choice and action in life I made is a stunning reversal of everything people must scream out… who the fuck does this happen to? With EVERYONE? All is rosy and fun and great when ALONE with you people, and then you all become jekyll and hydes, crapping on everyone’s day and dinner and drinks? You don’t know how you come off. Every choice I made in life is a stunning opposite example of what you all have to make others think. Physical safety is constantly an issue, you’ve got women and vain men literally asking, ordering rather, to be thrown out a window so they can have a go at tearing off my face. Your raw, ugly, naked egos blaming me for every failure and disappointment in life since birth just doesn’t fly. You can’t say I didn’t ry. I never gave up. But retirement is a natural thing. Living in exile is glorious. Chaplin found that out after he was not allowed back into the States. There are better things to do with my life than entertain yelling, threatening bullies that pretend to be a friend in private to just use me. Not pretty now, is it?

            • March 26, 2013 at 6:03 am #

              Hm, I’m sorry to hear that! I am not idealistic but have however created a positive and my ideal reality. I’ve been able to stop attracting negative, ugly people like that and only attract genuine, high quality people. The people you mention are petty are not worth the time, so I stay away from people like that and engage with only people who increase my quality of life and are like minded. That means staying away from people who constantly judging others and have nothing but bad things to say. I surround myself with loving people and people who are worth spending time with. You are the average of the 5 people who spend the most time with, so keep that in mind!

              • keith
                March 26, 2013 at 9:41 am #

                Well, I too believe that a great deal of these people in my life are actually great in almost all areas of life, really admirable people. But then they become reduced to vicious animals and this is no exaggeration. (Of course, there’s the half composed of the negatives that have to slight others daily.) But what I have learned is that even the greatest of human beings, truly magnificent people, are reduced to this behavior towards me in front of others. Really hard to believe you don’t have saboteurs amongst your even best quality of friends.

    • Whitney Jane
      December 7, 2012 at 3:07 pm #

      Yes, yes, yes!! I’m experiencing the same situations. Being attractive is such a double edged sword, plus young and successful and you will be excluded for sure. I’m from the South and everyone is so closed minded and jealous. Thank you for sharing your situations, and reassuring my feelings. Xoxoxoxo. P.S. Anonymous, you must be one of those jealous haters.

      • Anonymous
        February 3, 2013 at 5:38 pm #

        this is actually the first time I did a search on this topic, I thought maybe the reason I feel discriminated is I am the delusional one. But I really am not. I know I am beautiful and I know every where I have worked I have been hated. People are cold and non receptive to me and then walk around talking behind my back that I don’t make relationships, I am quiet,….I have lost my jobs and my friends over this. people even my own friends, the ones I thought they were my best friends, were so obviously threatened by me especially when I was going through my divorce to the point that they only invited me to some of their “women only” gatherings. If I went to their houses, the husbands didn’t dare to come and say hi or talk a little bit….it is so difficult
        my college career advisor has told me to wear no make up or nude colors because a lot of employers may look at you and feel you will be a distraction to other employees. I work in auto industry where it is so male dominated especially in engineering departments where I work. My 17 year old daughter who is stunningly gorgeous also is going through the same thing with her friends.
        I was always puzzled that what is wrong with me, why no one likes me, well women don’t like me and men, a lot of them, are disgusting when they see a beautiful woman, the way they check you out or simply stare at my breasts, etc.
        i am glad I searched the topic and now I know I am not dellusional, it is real, unfortunately. while there are discrimination laws against, race , sex, religion, … there is still no discrimination laws against beauty. I wish they talked about this more in media to raise awareness about it.

  2. Jimbo
    April 4, 2012 at 9:11 pm #

    This woman is a ridiculously delusional narcissist and I can not take her seriously at all! LOL

    • Sarveez
      August 16, 2012 at 2:02 am #

      Sorry Dude, my wife is a drop-dead gorgeous woman and she suffers IDENTICALLY to this woman, at work, in a bar, in a club, or just in the mall. Women hate other pretty women. Her problems stem from OTHER jealous women and no one else. She has non-jealous friends, but enough envy folows her too. YOU ARE THE DEUSIONAL one. Open your eyes!

    • Anonymous
      September 5, 2012 at 3:20 pm #

      This lady is a little overrating herself. While she is a good-looking woman, she is far from being beautiful. She considers herself lucky because she is tall and blond?? Than you have no idea what beauty is. I feel lucky that I am a Brunette and 5.4 feet tall. And I’ve been called a movie star, a Goddess, a beauty queen, next top model … quite often and by many strangers. Yes, I have a pretty face and a very nice body, but what really attracts people is your energy and being alluring. I had moments, that I would turn heads on every step I took, men and women looking after you, giving compliments… and you would bloom and feel so good, that you looked even more beautiful. And there were moments, when going through difficult times, I wouldn’t get as much attention anymore. To me, a true beauty is a feminine, elegant and sophisticated woman, who knows how to be confident with a hint of modesty. And yes, I do experience the same issues at work and with friends, and it is a constant struggle, and you have to watch all your words and actions, to God forbid, not praise yourself or just tell a random story about how that guy stopped you, just because he thought you are cute, etc…. and all that for not upsetting your so-called friends, who tell the same stories about themselves. I have moments, where I downgrade myself in front of my friends, or compliment them way too much, so they could feel happy about themselves and would finally realize, that I am just another woman. And there are those moments, when you get frustrated by that situation, and you fight back, convincing yourself that none of those jealous girls worth your efforts, because no matter what you do, you can never force them to accept you the way you are. Well too bad for them, because I am actually a very good friend and a good person overall.

  3. April 4, 2012 at 9:16 pm #

    When I read articles like this I think if professional, well educated women in the work force are more pre-occupied about their weight, looks and clothing than doing their job properly why would anyone hire a woman for a position of authority? This woman thinks she’s making intelligent points when she says, “I find that older women are the most hostile to beautiful women — perhaps because they feel their own bloom fading.” No, you’re not smart, you’re as shallow as a hyper-hormonal teenager using bitching to give yourself covert compliments while making your friends feel like shit. I suspect narcissism is what’s really holding you back in your career.

    • James Hill
      April 5, 2012 at 10:40 am #

      I don’t think it’s a matter of women being more preoccupied with their looks than job aptitude, it’s just that women are judged more on physical appearance than men are and any woman would be foolish to ignore that.
      The author of this piece takes it to an hysterical extreme and it’s glaringly obvious that her interpersonal problems with other woman are driven by her psychological issues and not by any perceived imbalance of beauty between her and her coworkers.

      • April 5, 2012 at 11:00 am #

        I disagree, I think women are more judgemental of men’s appearance than men are judgemental of women’s. Women use different criteria and more of them to judge men and they judge more harshly. Men focus almost exclusively at the physical fitness of a woman’s body, while women not only focus on the physical fitness of a man’s body, they focus on his body language and the quality/expense of his clothes. Even though women might have a more complex set of traits for judging a person’s physical appearance, it doesn’t change the fact the act of judging a person’s worth based on what’s there on the surface is shallow and no better than the shallowness men can express in this regard to women.

        • James Hill
          April 5, 2012 at 11:52 am #

          Right, except there are plenty of ugly men in positions of power and influence and their looks simply don’t factor in. We didn’t spend a great deal of time talking about Kim Beazley’s obesity when he was leader of the Labor party, but Julia Gillard’s bum is a topic of national conversation. Men and women are both to blame for this sort of behaviour, for whatever reason a woman’s physical appearance will always be noteworthy about her, even if her job does not require her to look attractive in the slightest, it’s still something we all notice and alters our behaviour accordingly.

          • April 5, 2012 at 12:17 pm #

            The only people talking about Gillard’s bum are other women. Which means I should probably adjust my previous point to “women are more judgemental of appearance than men.”

            Men are fortunate to the degree that if we’re ugly, we have two more chances to redeem ourselves in the eyes of women: appear powerful in our body language and failing that, have lots of money.

            Men don’t expect women to have good personalities, nor do they expect women to have money and provide for them. We only expect them to look attractive. Personally, I think we men need to raise our standards and expectations of women and stop worshipping the ground women walk on purely because they’re pretty.

            • James Hill
              April 5, 2012 at 2:13 pm #

              Oh for sure, women judging other women is a huge issue. The vast majority of the fashion industry is about making women look more appealing to other women. It’s certainly not men that are demanding anorexic models.

              I also don’t think it’s just attractive women we should hold to a higher standard. I think our entire society places far too much emphasis on conventional beauty and youth at the expense of genuine substance. We’re a trivial culture and our art and media reflect that.

      • April 5, 2012 at 11:24 am #

        I can’t wait for the inevitable Open Letter public reply from one of her ex-friends / ex-bosses….

    • Wendy
      September 29, 2012 at 10:19 am #

      Um Jason, this woman just hit the nail on the head, for me. This is exactly the way I ‘ve been treated for years. She is telling her story. When you have a story to tell, you tell it. Walk in her and my shoes. Judging us the way you have seems to show you as shallow.

      • September 29, 2012 at 5:11 pm #

        Don’t you dare judge me as shallow and tell me to not pass judgement myself in the same breath. I’ll judge who I like, when I like and how I like. You have no right to police my thoughts or opinions. Right now, I judge you as shallow and stupid.

    • Karen Myers
      December 11, 2012 at 3:24 pm #

      First off Jason has completely missed the point to this article and has no idea what’s he’s talking about. I’m so happy I ran across this article because its 100% true. This is not about dressing nice or looking the most attractive. She is indeed a good looking woman. And yes, I go through the same foolish thing.

      She is definitely not alone. Most attractive women will tell you they have problems with a female boss. Sometimes there problems they create and other times they don’t. Let’s stick with problems they don’t create. There are problems with female bosses who may be heavier or not as attractive or youthful, using their power to make their subordinates miserable. And it does happen!

      And to say it doesn’t is just silly because I doubt any man has lived the experience of an attractive young woman. So their perspective is obviously flawed. You haven’t lived it so how can you possibly comment on it? The fact that her boss pulled her aside and talked about her dress being distracting to male co-workers while all the other women were dressed the same way, shows she’s she’s being singled out!

      There are countless studies done to show that prettier people do have a more difficult time getting hired and whatnot due to misconception that we’re not very smart, we’re flirtatious, etc. However there are studies that show pretty people benefit from some things. So the term that beauty is a double-edged sword is not an untrue statement.

      On that note, Jason: no one has right to curse and ridicule this woman. Maybe you can’t find a date or something? What’s your problem? What kind of scum bag do have to be to say things like that to somebody. I read your comments about how women judge men for their quality/expense. Sounds like you have more of a chip on your shoulder than she does. And frankly none of that has to do with this article.

      Women are jealous and it’s a fact. So the idea that all that changes and goes away once you put a suit on is a joke. But you completely missed the point of this article and you have no idea what you’re talking about. You have no right to attack her intelligence, her opinion, her experience, her ability to maintain friendship or anything of the like. I read your comments about how men need to raise their standards. It’s quite obvious your issue is with women in general and the bad experiences you’ve had with them. You don’t need a message board, you need a therapist.

      To Samantha: I totally understand what you’re going through and keep your chin up. Thank you for writing this wonderful article!

      I had an experience similar to yours years ago. I’m friends with a couple and the female friend had to work. I tell her I don’t feel comfortable going out with her male counterpart alone and didn’t want to upset her. Hand to God, she prods me into it with the “I don’t mind” and “go and have fun”. Then all of a sudden he’s text messaging her while she’s at work and unbeknownst her, I can see her text messages. She’s calling me a liar and every name in the book since I actually hung out with him. I don’t understand why women say one thing when they mean another. I’m definitely not that way at all.

      It was crazy. Needless to say, I said adios to them both. So these things do happen to other people. Women in general are tricky for the most part. Female bosses even more so. Thanks again for writing.

      • Anonymous Female
        December 25, 2012 at 12:48 pm #

        OMG! *finally* someone, a woman, is brave enough to write about this subject. Is it due to the recent article about the woman who was fired at a dental office in the mid-west because she was deemed “too” pretty by the owner, a man, and was directed to fire this woman because of his *jealous* wife? Gee, it never happens, huh?

        I have been looking for self-help books, online articles, and blog posts about this subject for years; nothing can be found. As if this isn’t a problem for anyone, it isn’t legitimate, its supposedly shallow, and just plain silly – as usually this is all in our “woman-oriented silly little heads…there-there.”

        I have had problems with this ever since I can remember. It’s VERY isolating and continually makes me feel like there is something wrong with me. Why can’t most people ever be interested in me? Why are they only interested in how I look, how I dress, how I put myself together, where I shop and what I buy, and how I spend my time (at a distance of course; meaning through lots of gossip behind my back). As if I’m some celebrity and the IDEA of me is great, but what, the real me isn’t worth a damn? Knowing the real person would tarnish the “lie” for you, huh?

        I’ve also noticed most people don’t want to hear about my life difficulties and regularly hear comments like, or I’m treated like, “You’ve got it made and shouldn’t be complaining about anything.” As if everything must be so easy for me. So…would how you treat me, isolate me, and gossip about me be an indicator of how EASY it must be for me, then?

        Recently, a female acquaintance said, “You’re not at all like what I thought you’d be like.” Duh, really? What in the hell where you expecting? I am human after all.

        I find most women – who do actually stop to talk to me on rare occasions – only want to talk about themselves as if they’re trying to impress me, while sizing me up at the same time, as in, “How interested are you in me, my accomplishments, and what I’M DOING. Are you impressed.” These moments are not only RUDE, but disappointing, and VERY uncomfortable.

        There have also been difficulties in keeping some jobs, especially if I have a female boss and/or work with A LOT of women. I can’t every work with more than 30% of female in the office; it always ends badly, usually at my expense.

        I have been fired from one job because I wouldn’t go out with some stupid egotistical co-worker guy. I have had male bosses tell me to my face, “I guess you wouldn’t considering going out with a old guy like me, huh?” – as I am handing him the monthly invoices. *creepy* I’ve had women “hen-peck” me in front of a group of other females on more than one occasion AT WORK.

        I’ve had female co-workers and/or females bosses say and do things to keep me from being promoted while working really had at ostracizing me in the work place as they work toward geting me fired, and it’s never been for my work performance, attitude, or how personable (or not) I am. Kind of strange given not one of them will condescend to speak to me, invite me to lunch, or really hang out with me and I’m the one being fired.

        In school, most other females I knew would get asked out, have dates, or boyfriends. I only came across one boy who was “interested” (but only in getting laid). My friends have gone off and gotten married; I’ve never been asked. I guess I’m only the “temporary” type ‘er something? I dunno.

        I CHALK ALL OF THIS petty hen-pecking bullshit up to women just not having been in the work force (or around the block) long enough, especially in positions of power and/or authority, to know they should be acting and behaving differently. Men have learned this centuries ago! We’ve been in the workforce, heavily so in America, since the 1970s. That’s not very long. Women are still stuck in pre-1960s mentality of being the housewife, the neighborhood gossip, and operating in social “packs” to keep their menfolk at home and loyal, and thinking they have no real say, power, or authority in their lives.

        Women around the world will continue to be treated like unimportant, emotional, frivolous, petty “little girls” if women can’t get over these stupid “image-oriented” insecurity-driven behaviors that have no real bearing on “anything”.

        BECAUSE I’ve had SO MANY problems with this all my life, I am finally at a point of fully accepting this won’t go away and that I should just start my own business: be my own boss, use my brains – and if need be my looks – to make my own way in the world. If you can’t condescend to talk to me, then maybe you’d be willing to BUY THE IMAGE OF ME AND MY PRODUCTS – at a price. And, you can stay over there, I’ll stay over here – both happy in our separate worlds.

  4. Anonymous
    April 5, 2012 at 1:44 am #

    Poor you Rebecca. There is hope however as one day you will be old and with the ‘bloom fading’ maybe you could stop worrying about good your looks and have that piece of chocolate!

  5. marcella
    April 5, 2012 at 7:25 am #

    This is very sad, this woman is a far cry from beautiful. As someone that she might considered to be an “older” woman, I have to tell you that I don’t have time for the mean girl nonsense at my age. Believe me, I wouldn’t even look twice at you Samantha.

    • Cyn
      May 17, 2012 at 8:20 am #

      Maybe in Nabraska, or Utah or some place where her looks are intimidating to those who just rolled out from the farms and who are used to the homely types. I am from NYC and she is a hell of a far cry from beautiful. If she came to my neck of the woods she would want to do more in terms of perhaps working out more and looking less matronly. A far cry from what we consider in NYC as beautiful.

  6. maris
    April 5, 2012 at 10:18 am #

    What she is saying might be true. We cannot speak in behalf of what she herself has experience

    • James Hill
      April 5, 2012 at 10:44 am #

      Did you read the piece? Either every female she’s ever met is a jealous psychopath or she’s distorted the story to make up for her own shortcomings. If you have to accept as truth everything you haven’t personally experienced you’re going to wind up believing some crazy stuff.

    • April 5, 2012 at 11:06 am #

      I’m sure it is true, however, I think she overstates and oversimplifies the situation to manical degree. Maybe in reality her decent looks (I give her 6.5/10) account for 10% of her problems, but the other 90% almost certainly have nothing to do with her looks.

      Also, her decent looks almost certainly give her an advantage greater than their disadvantage.

  7. anonymous
    April 5, 2012 at 10:21 am #

    Let us be kind to one another. The world needs kindness more than judgement

    • April 5, 2012 at 11:03 am #

      I completely disagree. Excessive kindness causes incredible amounts of damage. Better we be good at making judgements than lustful with our compassion.

      • yeah right
        August 23, 2012 at 11:46 am #

        OK, whoever holds this particular view is NOT THE PERSON who knows what the world needs. You have never been a woman Jason. You are coming across like someone who has beef with beautiful women. Maybe they rejected you in high school or something. Just letting you know how you come across. I reckon Mother Theresa would agree that kindness causes healing and cruelty causes suffering. Your comments are cruel. I guess you must say something this incoherent in order to delude yourself that there is something wrong with compassion and excessive kindness. Can you just remember that the woman in the article HASN’T HURT ANYONE. If people feel hurt by it then it’s the most obvious sign of jealousy that there is. Jealous people feel hurt by someone else’s success or beauty or whatever. You want for some reason to deny her experience. You’re being a fool who believes more in advertiser’s b.s. than in classic stories such as Snow White who show this dynamic of pretty women being bullied… it’s an age old thing. In our culture everyone’s invested in the idea that if they just lost a tiny bit of weight, just wore the right make up and looked 10 years younger, that life will magically be amazing. Newsflash. This is a capitalist lie. Life is hard enough without people intentionally making it harder out of jealousy and this actually happens a lot to people every day. This happens to talented artists, models, chiefs, students, writers, everyone- the same goes for the ‘swot’ in school. To deny it is idiotic. Question is, how best to handle it.

  8. April 5, 2012 at 11:58 am #

    Oooh beattoed me to writing this article.

    I agree with what Samantha says… yes a little narcissistic but she has a point, the point being that the reason women find it hard to get ahead is…

    … the worst critics of women are other envious women.

    think germaine greer’s comments about Julia Gillard’s dress sense.

    How a woman looks plays very hard into how much perceived value they have, and for that I pity them.

    • April 5, 2012 at 12:11 pm #

      Some advice: never pity a woman purely because she’s a woman. If she’s been wronged, beaten, maimed or destroyed without justification, then pity her yes. But otherwise, never pity a woman.

      • Jessica
        August 23, 2012 at 10:35 am #

        What a woman hater you are. Ugly, pretty, sad, happy, beaten, spoiled- I’m sure you hate them all.

    • April 5, 2012 at 2:07 pm #

      your advice is noted, but I will pity anyone for any reason I please. I believe the reasons I pity are sound- that is a woman, especially a beautiful one, has less control over fate by her own choices, because she is forced to play a role she is typecast to play. This pity is preferable to worship or hatred of women, as one young korean man expressed in the most unfortunate of ways.

      http://www.theage.com.au/world/uni-shooter-was-a-sacked-angry-gunman-who-hated-women-20120405-1wdrn.html

      • James Hill
        April 5, 2012 at 2:17 pm #

        Your comment might have carried a little more weight in the 50’s, but not in 2012 where women serve as CEOs, leaders of nations and in elite military roles. Every gender and group has societal expectations placed on them, men and women, children and adults, rich and poor. I would argue that women in western countries have more freedom from these expectations than men as there is less open mockery of a woman that chooses something outside her gender role. We openly try to recruit female engineers and miners, but a male hairdresser or air host damn well better get used to people questioning his masculinity.

      • April 5, 2012 at 3:20 pm #

        Do I demean women by pitying them for that which they cannot change? Probably.

        Do I care? No.

        I actually find it better because it’s easier to manage a person’s expectations when you can accurately discern their motivations and their circumstance.

        • April 5, 2012 at 9:36 pm #

          Personally I think that some of what Sarah Brick says may carry some weight.

          Certainly she ain’t the hottest babe in the room but I actually think that makes it worse.

          A ridiculously hot woman is obvious to both males and females: so as a male they become less approachable, even platonically, especially in front of a spouse. It’s a very self conscious thing for all involved.

          But a woman who is a “above average”? Whole grey area. Samantha Brick is 41 years old. She looks darn good for that age, you have to admit. She looks 10 years younger. I’m sure most other women she knows in their 40s don’t have her figure or her confidence. That makes her an approachable yet attractive woman who really would pose a realistic threat to women who think their husbands wouldn’t have a hope in the world going for a 9-out-of-10.

          I could be wrong, but I’m cynical about people.

          • James Hill
            April 8, 2012 at 9:53 pm #

            Andrew, no doubt there would be some people who feel threatened or jealous of an attractive woman but there would also be plenty of people confident enough in themselves not to let it upset them. The idea that she has no close female friends because every one of them is jealous of her beauty is ridiculous. If she has no close female friends it speaks to a serious flaw in her character. Some people feel threatened by a beautiful person, but almost everyone is offput by someone who is conceited.

            • April 9, 2012 at 6:33 am #

              I concur, conceit is an unattractive quality and is probably the source of many of Samantha’s problems.

              At the same time, I would contend that that conceit has to be analysed independently of how “attractive” she is. Because perhaps her conceit is a product of the way she is typecast by everyone who meets her , and how they react to her.

              It’s one of those chicken and egg ones.

              • yeah right
                August 23, 2012 at 12:08 pm #

                I think she is not conceited. A conceited person would be smiling about how gorgeous they think themselves. This woman has done soul searching and finally ‘got real’ and found the root of the problem. This is a taboo thing to talk about but it is a common experience that many women have had at one point or another. The problem is that no one wants to ever admit to feelings of jealousy. So they come up with a range of reasons, look for ‘valid’ things to criticize a woman for and then when they find them- boom. Character assassination and jealousy concealed. It can ruin a woman’s self esteem having people constantly try to ‘take them down a peg’ because they wrongly assume these women need or deserve it. Imagine for a second that you had been an ‘ugly duckling’ then blossomed into a hottie, you wouldn’t feel beautiful inside, you’d be oblivious. You might wonder why people always seem to give you a hard time even when you are nice, kind, thoughtful and respectful of others (and self respecting too)… it might not cross your mind that it’s your looks that are part of it. You could easily think you were an awful person. Imagine not knowing how threatening others find you. Imagine finding out your looks make others insecure and being able to do nothing about it and feeling bad for other people’s discomfort even though it’s not your fault really. In fact the nicer you are to a jealous person, the more they hate you because they can’t even bitch about something mean you said because you aren’t mean. Lots of people here are being naive and quite unfair. This woman is suffering because women find her threatening and all everyone can do is be cruel to a socially isolated woman who is feeling bad enough at being socially rejected as it is. Just remember that Angelina Jolie doesn’t have any female friends and neither does Megan Fox- women reject them because men adore them. They need and deserve our support if we can just get over the jealousy and see clearly.

        • April 6, 2012 at 9:54 am #

          My intention with giving you that advice wasn’t to stop you making chauvanistic comments about pitying poor helpless women folk but to warn you of the dangers of thinking women folk are poor and helpless. Just because someone looks poor and helpless doesn’t mean they are. Women are very intelligent and capable folk who are experts at turning defeat into victory in a split second. Underestimate women at your own risk.

          • April 6, 2012 at 7:05 pm #

            Did I imply women were helpless? I would say instead that , rather than pitying her in the sense of underestimating a beautiful woman, instead think of it as accepting them for who they are; no more, no less, just a product of circumstance. It is fable of the scorpion and the frog. Once I learned to accept this, it made dealing with women much easier.

            The reason I pity is this. A lot of people think beautiful, attractive people have it easy. Hell, even they admit they have it easy. The thing is, accept they have that hand and accept that that hand will grant them a hubris and a complacency that can be predicted, understood and accounted for.

            ps lots of haters in this thread yo, haters gonna hate

            and hating is a waste of time.

            • April 7, 2012 at 5:58 pm #

              The only rational way I can respond to this comment is, “lol!”

            • April 8, 2012 at 5:56 pm #

              well you lol, I sigh

              casting pearls before swine.

              Hopefully whatever beliefs and prejudices you hold help you get the results you desire in your own life. Otherwise a lol is a celebration of ignorance.

    • April 5, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

      I beg to differ James, my comment is not anachronistic. Funnily enough, I also think we agree, like two blind men groping an elephant.

      Think of the stops pulled out to rescue Jessica Lynch. Think of Germaine Greer’s comments about Julia Gillard’s behind (would such comments have been made of JH?), think of the backlash against Samantha Bricks. Women are being treated differently because they are women… BY OTHER WOMEN. Women have a role in society that is different from men. They live, play and decide differently because their circumstances are different.

      All I suggest is that we, as actors on the stage, play the roles we are meant to play. We may play it in a way that we decide to express our identities, but nature would have our identities vary from the onset by the fact I have something between my legs and a beautiful woman has glands on her chest. Rather than trying to homogenise difference away, we should acknowledge that those differences exist and, like it or not, many choose to judge based on those differences.

      If I had my way, no-one would be judged whether they woman or man, white or black or red or yellow, or any other such periphery. The only truly judgement should be “does the person have the merit or traits to complete the task.”

      But others, like Greer, would beg to differ.

  9. Joey
    April 6, 2012 at 4:41 am #

    Must be her attitude “I’m so special” that is causing her her problems, because her looks are nothing special.

  10. Jennifer Anderson
    April 6, 2012 at 7:48 am #

    I like it! So she knows she is pretty and has the courage to speak to the problems it can cause. Believe me, she barely touched the surface! Samantha should also say, “Don’t hate me because I can say I’m beautiful without worrying about twenty out of thirty grown women getting bristly.

    I worked with a brilliant and gorgeous young gentleman in the Talent Management department of a corporate home builder who wrote his doctoral thesis on aesthetic discrimination. He was generous enough to allow me to read it as I was complaining how many interviews I had aced while job searching yet never received a call back then finding out a less qualified and less attractive person was chosen. Changed my paradigm…

    Don’t be afraid of pretty people and don’t be afraid of your own pretty!
    ;-)

    • Jimbo
      April 6, 2012 at 9:39 am #

      Did you really ace those interviews? Did you really? ” less attractive person was chosen” Sorry to say champ, but you just gave yourself away as a delusional narcissist. Perhaps that’s just one of the many reasons why you didn’t get those jobs.

  11. Anonymous
    April 6, 2012 at 4:17 pm #

    As a late 50ish women, I take great offence at Samantha, telling us that our BLOOM IS FADING, what crap.

    My bloom is just opening, darling. Samantha you might be interested in knowing that as us faded blooms, fade we step up to the plate, start to become more empowered and brave then ever, take on new interests, start new jobs and start loving ourselves for who we truly are instead of having to be who other people want us to be.

    If you truly love yourself warts and all, you never compare yourself to others, you should try it, its very liberating and you indeed need some liberating get the chip off your shoulder become a woman of the 21st century and stop living in the dark ages.

    If we all have what it takes to do a job, we have personalities and we have get up and go , it wont matter how hot you are, the right person gets the job every time. And by the way who, in their right mind wants to take a position when they have been given it by the way you look. Try hanging around a few older women for awhile, we will give you a few pointers on where you are going wrong. But, somehow I think your to late.

    Chez,Sydney.

    • April 8, 2012 at 6:10 pm #

      So much bitterness and sour grapes in this thread.

      Think outside the square for a moment.

      Whether it is true or not, what Samantha wrote is simply how she views reality. This reality is self-reinforcing in the evidence provided to it. This view is a lens, which alters the way she sees reality, but it need not be your own lens (I don’t think she’s that attractive myself by the way, but onward to Andrew’s excellent comment about her being “accessible” hence intimidating)

      When you know someone views reality in a particular way, it is hubris to believe you can convince them of “better”. Instead, accept their view of reality and exploit that view to your own ends. A poker player may have a tell. Rather than informing them, use the tell when you play with them.

      The above works because – many live delusional lives, from the narcissistic like Samantha to all the tall poppy cutters who would take her down a peg for being honest about the way she sees the world, and that everyone is somehow “unique” or “special”. Somehow the latter has come to be treated as the “good guys” in our societal discourse

      No one is a unique or special snowflake, we are the singing dancing crap of the world, and we are dying every day. Once we accept this , dealing with the quirkier of our human brethren becomes a lot easier. Live and let live lol.

      How you look does play into how you are treated, what opportunities you are offered and what challenges you face. To try to homogenization this away is its own form of political correctness, and its own form of delusion.

    • April 9, 2012 at 7:04 pm #

      Cheers to that Chez :) that’s the most positive & valid comment on this thread!

    • Nothing But The Truth
      April 8, 2013 at 8:36 am #

      Samantha has said that women compare themselves to her and that it is THOSE women who have the chip on their shoulder. Like you for instance. You’re a great example of someone with a chip on her shoulder. Her article wasn’t about self love. Did you read this sober? Your response is all wacky from start to finish. Its as though you’re responding to an article you yourself wrote to piss yourself off. Maybe you were high or took too much antidepressant or hormone at the time.

      This article is about the jealousy of women. It is about the insecurities of women. It is not about the greatness of Samantha Brick. I’m sure Samantha Brick knows she’s not a supermodel, but she is pretty and she knows that being even a little prettier than the next female over is enough to piss that female off. The issue is not with Brick’s beauty. Its other women’s perception that they themselves are not AS good looking as her.

      A woman does not NEED to look like Cindy Crawford to be able to attest to the truth of female to female envy-based hostility. Not at all. I would say I’m average looking. Probably a 5. I know I’m not fabulous and I will never make the cover of a magazine. However, and listen closely here- when a 4 comes along, just the fact that I’m POSSIBLY one step above her, in her mind, is enough to light her fire. GREAT LOOKS are not required to stoke envy. What IS needed for envy to arise? A woman who PERCEIVES HERSELF as unattractive, especially when compared to any female who possesses a better physical trait that she herself doesn’t possess.

      Samantha’s message is not that she herselef is so very fabulous. Samantha’s message is that other women feel so very insecure in themselves. And its the cold hard truth.

      Got it druggy? You can go back to the bar now. Go have a drink and a smoke and tell your bar buds in your authoritative-sounding-but-full-of-crap way how you know all the secrets to the universe and that you are the authority on matters of which you couldn’t possibly have first hand knowledge about. Go back to the bar and try to convince yourself that your version of reality is everyone else’s.

  12. Anonymous
    April 6, 2012 at 6:32 pm #

    I have just watched an interview on television with thick as a brick Samantha, I just want to throw up.

    Go away .

  13. Anonymous
    April 9, 2012 at 9:18 pm #

    Thanks for yours cheers andrew, I love INTENTIOUS.

    And to you Richard Lee, I am not bitter or sour just a women with a lot of life experience and if you think that Samantha simply has this view of her self in reality , then the lens your are talking about has vaseline covered over it.

    Chez,Sydney.

    • April 10, 2012 at 6:03 am #

      Brave words Chez. Yet I would say this to you.

      QUESTION:
      How often are you propositioned by men, how often do they shower you with gifts, in your younger years and today, when you are in “full bloom”?

      I can accept that “all women are against me” is Samantha’s conceit and paranoia. But that she is “pretty enough” to get hit on all the time is a stimulus that will change her situation, and her outlook on life. These solicitations, they reinforce her reality that her looks are both a boon and a curse.

      Attractiveness is not everything and does not define the value of a person in entireity . But brave words are not enough, one must demonstrate that your situation is equivalent to Samantha’s for your situation to be relevant.

      • April 10, 2012 at 6:05 am #

        * relevant to this discussion.

        Looks making life difficult is the topic of discussion here. Not whether you can compensate for looks with personality.

  14. Anonymous
    April 10, 2012 at 10:45 am #

    Point taken Richard, what I can say from my own experience and trying to make it equal to Samanthas is that no matter how old your are or how young your are females still face these same situations.

    For example in my case to answer your question. I do get propostioned by men just in a older demographic, I get a lot of gift for all kinds of reasons ,but the gifts I like the best are the ones I buy myself.
    Every women and man likes to be admired by the opposite sex, but when it degenerates into paranoia and conceit and one becomes delusional with oneself, surely the only way forward for Samantha is some good old fashioned counselling.

    Chez,Sydney

  15. April 10, 2012 at 12:06 pm #

    I feel inspired by the excellent work James Hill has done in the name of trolling to attempt my own piece of trolling:

    As an able bodied person, I feel I am often unfairly discriminated against. Once I saw a paraplegic person fall out of their wheelchair and everyone stopped to help him back in again. But when I tripped over on the step no one came to help me up. I was lying there waiting for someone to help me for hours but all that happened was this security guard came up to me and asked if I was hurt. I said I was fine, I’d just fallen over, nothing was broken or even bruised, I was just waiting for my fellow man to pick me up again. Then do you know what he did? He just stared at me, rolled his eyes and walked off. I eventually had to pick myself up off the ground all by myself. What kind of disgusting world do we live in where able-bodied people are treated with less respect than invalids?

    Whenever I see those ads about disabled people getting jobs I feel like the reason why I don’t get any jobs or pass any of my classes is because they give special treatment to disabled people. It’s about time we passed laws prohitting employers from discriminating against people without disabilities.

    • James Hill
      April 11, 2012 at 8:47 am #

      This reminds me a bit of the transabled who pretend to be disabled for pity and attention and try to frame it as merely another lifestyle choice:

      http://transabled.org/thoughts/other-thoughts/chloes-thoughts/hardware-from-head-to-toe.htm

      • April 11, 2012 at 9:29 am #

        She’s one of the most attractive disabled chicks I’ve ever seen… that must mean she has a real disability there amongst all the props she wearing because of her “Body Integrity Identity Disorder.”

    • yeah right
      August 23, 2012 at 12:20 pm #

      Your metaphor is flawed. It should be

      “as an able bodied person I get attacked and ignored by the paraplegics who assume that life is easier for me, so it’s fair to attempt to disadvantage me on purpose to make up for the fact that they have it easy.”

  16. gwallan
    April 12, 2012 at 8:31 pm #

    “I’m not smug and I’m no flirt”

    or…

    I have written in the Mail on how I have flirted to get ahead at work, something I’m sure many women do.

    So which is it Ms Brick? If it is the second you’d be pissing me off as well as your female colleagues and rightfully so.

  17. Bios
    April 19, 2012 at 7:54 pm #

    Jason Sutherland is correct that women judge men far more harshly overall, at least in this country. Even if a woman is attracted to you physically, you can mess it up in a split second by saying the wrong thing, or making the wrong move, and it’s all over. No second chance.

    As for men thinking ‘she is out of my league’, please, let’s not perpetuate the myth that gorgeous women have no problem being asked out by average joes. The reality is that most highly attractive women look their best to attract the best men, and that is one of their prime motivations for dressing up, regardless of what they think or say. If they truly are _not_ doing it for this reason, and understand that ‘average’ men are intimidated by them, then they are obviously stupid and going about it the wrong way.

    Having said that, great looking women are easier to ‘game’ than average or pretty looking ones, esp if you are an ‘interesting’ man, because generally it’s the blockheads that hit on them, but you have to know what you are doing. I’ve only met two men that can successfully date beautiful women through gaming techniques. The rest of them, like myself, just use our money.

    • April 20, 2012 at 10:39 am #

      Aside from looking their best, I would contend to you that women don’t dress up to attract men. They dress up to compete with other women.

      • April 20, 2012 at 10:51 am #

        Yes, but what are the women competing for? What is the purpose for the race they’re running with each other? If you can’t see it’s to get the strongest wealthiest sexiest most prestigious man possible, what do you see them competing for?

        • April 20, 2012 at 12:02 pm #

          Easy. A woman’s entire value does not revolve around getting married and attracting a man.

          Women can also compete over charism, status, and the symbols of influence. If you dress like a police officer, you may be mistaken for being a police officer.

          Say a woman turns up at the job interview to be the branch manager at a bank. Her competitor turns up dressed head-to-toe in Prada, and she looks the part, wealthier and more influential than the first interviewee, hence she would have an advantage if that is what the employer was looking for. Not to say that how you look is what determines your enitre value, but presentation and first impressions are an important part of the value equation.

          Women don’t dress up just for men. They do it to establish the pecking order with other women, and that’s probably why a woman’s biggest critics (especially a beautiful woman!) are envious other women trying to cut the tall poppy down.

          Studies show that you can judge a book by its cover… an attractive person is more likely to be more well socially adjusted and to have more opportunities offered to them. That’s because presentation is a big part of the influence equation.

          • April 20, 2012 at 12:08 pm #

            All I can say is, “lol!”

            (I’m saying this because you completely avoided the question through sophistry, you just continued to talk about how women compete and different ways they can compete while not dealing with the fundamental question of why do women compete? Why do they have a pecking order? Why was this trait in women selected for in evolution?)

            • April 20, 2012 at 12:50 pm #

              I answered your question.

              You question was:

              “Yes, but what are the women competing for? What is the purpose for the race they’re running with each other?”

              My answer was:

              “Status. Perks. Power, which leads to convencience.”

              A subset of this answer is:

              “Being chosen sexually by the best mates.”

              PS: “lol” is quite condescending. Not the best indicator of enlightened conversation, which would reflect poorly on yourself.

              • April 20, 2012 at 3:57 pm #

                “A subset of this answer is: Being chosen sexually by the best mates”

                The point that I was making. Thanks for acknowledging it.

                I was deliberately condescending because you we’re splitting hairs to avoid acknowledging that your explanation didn’t answer the question. Don’t think of it as a personal attack, it’s not, think of it as me communicating a loss of respect for someone’s lack of intellectual honesty.

                Yes, what I did was a form of social shaming. What will the consequences be for you? Because it hurt you to be treated with such condescension, the next time you click ‘reply’ you’ll stop and spend more time thinking about your reply. The result will be that you’ll be more thorough, more thoughtful and more interesting to read.

                I’m that annoying professional motivator pushing you to work harder and get closer to your goals. Without arseholes like me there would be no challenge to writing, it would just be random words and an audience clapping mindlessly. While it’s nice to have adoring fans, at the end of the day it will be thanks to arseholes like me that you got anywhere in life at all.

                This is all relevant to pretty women, because if anything, the lack of men challenging them and holding them to account probably means their brains shrink from lack of use – unless of course those pretty women are self-motivated individuals who challenge themselves. But they’re the exception, hardly the rule.

                • April 20, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

                  “Social shaming”? You say it like somebody cares about something inconsequential, or that it somehow matters. For something that is “not a personal attack”… your attack is very personal.

                  I stand by my assertion that I gave a complete answer, that you chose to scoff at. Because my answer looks at the wider picture and does not focus on “women are pretty to attract men”, you denigrate it as an answer that doesn’t fit with your view of reality. You may portray yourself as some motivator, but I would say to you that you scare away contributors by needlessly antagonising them.

                  If you were really for genuine intellectual honesty, you would attack the point I make in a rational and challenging salient that stands on its own, in a logically sound fashion. For that I would be in awe, and would concede to you. Instead you compensate by being nasty about it with falacious ad hominem attacks.

                  You’re better than this.

                  You sound very bitter, Jason. Hopefully you find some sembelance of happiness in the world you have created for yourself. Because if you see life as a battlefield, all you will find are enemies.

                  As a final note… being challenging to pretty women is important. But so is convincing them to couple with you, which is more important… being challenging itself is not the aim, nor is needlessly antagonising them. The only true measure is the consequence, the result of our actions.

                  Anyway, my job isn’t to hold pretty women to account- that’s God’s job, at the end of time. For me, learning to love beautiful women is enough, and God’s gift to me.

                  • April 20, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

                    I was going to reply to this, but it’s turning into article by itself. So I’m going to write it out as an article. Stay tuned for “The Virtue of Intolerance.”

                    • April 20, 2012 at 6:43 pm #

                      I’m reading your comments with interest and all I’m going to say is sooner or later there comes a time where you just have to let two individuals believe in the relevance of their own points. The issue is bigger than either of you and there are going to be hundreds of thousands of people not only who share your view but who have every bit in between. I agree, don’t put each other down / be condescending / equally don’t try to have the last word… points get lost in all the needless replies. Keep it brief :P

                • Nicole
                  April 21, 2012 at 5:51 am #

                  “I’m that annoying professional motivator pushing you to work harder and get closer to your goals. Without arseholes like me there would be no challenge to writing, it would just be random words and an audience clapping mindlessly. While it’s nice to have adoring fans, at the end of the day it will be thanks to arseholes like me that you got anywhere in life at all.”

                  “This is all relevant to pretty women, because if anything, the lack of men challenging them and holding them to account probably means their brains shrink from lack of use – unless of course those pretty women are self-motivated individuals who challenge themselves. But they’re the exception, hardly the rule.”

                  Absolutely hysterical!!! As a woman I applaud this rule of thinking!

                  • April 21, 2012 at 7:58 am #

                    For a living I’m paid to be “annoying” to young children with learning disabilities because it gets them put 100% into everything and catch up with all the other kids. However, the approach isn’t used with adults simply because adults would rather go to a counselor who tells them what they want to hear, not what they need to hear.

    • Jessica
      August 23, 2012 at 10:43 am #

      Oh lord. If you think women are harsh to men, please go to church tonight and thank god that you are not a female because you would not last long. Women are vicious toward each other. Very very rarely do I find a female who has daggers for a man. Actually, almost all women I know will forgive disrespectful treatment from any man to boot. Women just don’t see men as competition so they don’t pay attention to you. Where sex motivates men, competition for male attention motivates women. That’s the main driving force behind a lot of female behavior.

  18. Sarah
    April 20, 2012 at 8:03 am #

    THANK YOU for this article! I am a 22 year old women and I know how upsetting it can be when your friends get jealous and put you down with words when you put on something nice. Being an attractive male maybe an advantage but being an attractive FEMALE is not all it’s cracked up to be.

    There is hostility and over scrutiny. For ex: when not smiling: you are interpreted as too cold; smile too much you are fake.

  19. April 20, 2012 at 5:18 pm #

    The simple fact is women are taught to compete. Men are taught to work together in a team. They are competitive but are taught to put it aside for the bigger picture. Even today with women being in group sports and other group settings there is still a sense that we are competing with one another. We aren’t really given an outlet to these stresses, most women don’t indulge in fistcuffs and fights. They keep in internally and learn to live with it. Some women even have friends they hate! Go figure. I don’t really have anything to back most of what I’m saying up. As a woman this is just how I see my sex and from my own experiences and what others have expressed to me.

    Unfortunately (and I cringe as I say this) but women are extremely prone to revenge and jealousy tactics, in the office, or even with friends. And women in power do tend to suppress other women in her organization and promote men.

    I guess the real question is…why do they do this?

    Is it really because the other woman is prettier?

    In my opinion Samantha isn’t a raging beauty but she does have a nice figure from keeping fit. I think sometimes her appearance may be the reason. Probably not always. I think probably a third of the times Samantha felt oppressed she probably wasn’t. Once we notice unreasonableness in others we tend to think every time we are passed over it is more of the same.

    I believe it does go back to a primal urge to gain a husband, procreate and nurture. Do I believe all women are motivated consciously for these reasons, no. It’s primal. How else can you explain phenomena like Twilight? Even women fighting against the age old roles still scratch this urge even when they aren’t looking for a husband or children. They still make efforts in those things women do to attract a mate.

    Anyway I hope I made a point and it makes sense. Feel free to rip into me, I’m ready! Cheers :)

  20. Bios
    April 20, 2012 at 9:02 pm #

    RICHARD: With all due respect, i did not say they only dressed up to attract the attention of men. I said it was one of their prime motivations, and i believe that is certainly the case. They may compete with other women in the workplace, but a huge part of playing ‘dress ups’ is to attract the best possible men. Feminists have tried hard to downplay this angle over the last 30 or so years, which is typical of course, because they would never want to make it seem that women were consciously doing anything for the benefit of men–when it’s really in their own self interest rather than the men’s of course, but they will rarely admit it–and it’s all part of grand design to undermine and weaken the perception of male influence on female agency in the name of empowerment, unless it’s not going in their favour of course, then they quickly revert to victim mode out of convenience.

    Anyway, for whatever reason women get all done up, ultimately, it’s not to attract the average joe. And i must admit that i do get annoyed whenever that point is made on forums or in ‘real life’ when it comes to dating. The point is that this whole ‘men think they are out of their league’ meme is yet another shaming tactic in a whole series of attacks launched against men. It’s exactly like the ‘men don’t like successful women’ line that women trot out with increasing regularity. Never once does anyone ask whether it’s the women that have unrealistically high expectations. No, we can never do that! It must be the man’s fault! It’s the insecure man that can’t approach an attractive and/or successful women!! Not the woman with the closed off body language, or expectations that effectively limit her options to less than 5% of the male population.

    • April 21, 2012 at 6:56 am #

      I would say you are falling into the same trap as Jason. In my kung fu school they have a saying… “look at the finger pointing at the moon, and you miss out on all the heavenly glory.”

      You are missing the big picture. Part of the reason women dress up is to attract men, BUT it is not the only reason, nor the most important one. In fact by believing it is the most important reason, you make approaching and getting to know the most attractive women more difficult for yourself.

      I’m not a feminist. At the same time, I think you give women a bit too much credit- it’s not some grand conspirational plot by the feminists to take over the world. Everyone has their reasons for dressing up- to get ahead on their job, to intimidate their competitors… while others just like doing it because they enjoy it and that is who they are.

      After a while you realise that a lot of things people fret about really don’t matter. Three rules that has helped me are these:

      “things that you think matter, don’t matter. Little things you think that don’t matter, really do matter.”

      “People (be it women, parents, your boss, your colleagues, your enemies) know what you think they don’t know, and don’t know what you think they know.”

      “Do not explain your shortcomings, your friends already know and your enemies don’t need to know.”

      I say all these things having chosen and approached a woman I’d like to be with and closing her. I love beautiful women, pleasant company, and the conversation that flows from it. That’s why I am not one of “the rest of them…. (who) just use (their) money”

      That’s why words like Samantha Brick’s are music to my ears. In some ways she tells it as it is, but her ego also makes it easier to connect with her by giving you a way in. Easy as.

  21. Bios
    April 20, 2012 at 9:12 pm #

    YAYKISS:I’m not going to ‘rip into you’, as i actually agree with most of what you are saying, but i found this rather ‘odd':

    “Even today with women being in group sports and other group settings there is still a sense that we are competing with one another. We aren’t really given an outlet to these stresses, most women don’t indulge in fistcuffs and fights. ”

    I agree with you that women are competitive on a number of different levels, just like men are, but the outlet point is strange to me. Men don’t ‘indulge’ in fights either, at least not ordinarily. Are you suggesting that women do not adequately vent their rage and frustration, even with all their support networks, which are generally more extensive than ones typically available to men?

    If so, i’m not sure i can agree with that. I think men are far more likely to ‘bottle up’ and keep things inside when they are angry or frustrated.

    Perhaps i have misunderstood.

    • April 21, 2012 at 4:59 pm #

      Hi Bios! Thanks for bringing up this point.

      What I meant about the group sports is that while women participate in such they don’t seem to have learned the same skills as men do in the exact same setting.

      As for your true question…the outlet…Perhaps I let my own self slip into what I was saying. I generally do not vent any rage or frustration with other women. And my support network is not generally populated with women either so I didn’t think about that aspect of most women’s lives. And from a perspective of my brothers I saw them being able to vent their frustrations with each other. Perhaps such is not the case for most men as I have encountered the bottling up phenomena. hehe. Perhaps the men I know are wither better at hiding things, at least from me, or are more well adjusted? Hmm, I’ll have to ponder that more. Cheers :)

  22. Anonymous
    April 21, 2012 at 10:23 pm #

    Thank you so much for writing this article. And while you are no supermodel, you’re pretty high up there and I could see how you would easily be considering the most attractive women in the room in most average social settings (not necessarily a beauty pageant.) And women DO treat other women hostily for being attractive. I am attractive and women give me the cold shoulder like clockwork. I also have difficulty forming female bonds. All of what you say registers with me and I’m sure other beautiful women alike. Nevermind the woman-hating men and jealous females who are leaving comments that YOU are your problem. If you were black or gay, you can bet they wouldn’t be accusing YOU of being your problem. Its only because of the gender hostility already against you because you’re a woman that these negative comments are being made to you. The guys are mad because they are afraid of women who look as good as you. And the ladies are mad because the guys would like to be with a woman who looks like you. That’s all. You are pretty and I completely believe your experience. There are lots of people who agree with you out here even though they may not have posted. Thank you for having the courage to write the article.

    • April 22, 2012 at 2:17 am #

      I thought this was an interesting comment: “You are pretty and I completely believe your experience.”

      We all completely believe her experience. She experienced it whether she is delusional or not because she believed it to be true. I think what’s being discussed is the veracity of her beliefs at the motivations behind how she feels she was treated.

      I have to say I’m having difficulty forming a bond with you right now…and it’s not because you’re attractive. Just because you’re attractive doesn’t mean a person is responding to you negatively because of it. It could just as much be your arrogance, or even more simply that you assume they will treat you negatively.

      Cheers :)

  23. Bios
    April 27, 2012 at 11:25 pm #

    “I’m not a feminist. At the same time, I think you give women a bit too much credit- it’s not some grand conspirational plot by the feminists to take over the world.”

    What? Have you read much feminist work? If so, can you please point me in the direction of feminists that talk about the problems of female entitlement and privilege that are not considered right wing crackpots like Paglia and Sommers?

    Most feminists are man hating trolls. That is the truth. I know this because i have worked with many of them in academia. They are just a little more subtle about it, and you have to know what to look for, but it’s there, absolutely.

    “I say all these things having chosen and approached a woman I’d like to be with and closing her. I love beautiful women, pleasant company, and the conversation that flows from it. That’s why I am not one of “the rest of them…. (who) just use (their) money”

    Great, but what’s your success rate? Money helps speed up the process considerably. If i have to compete against better looking men, i need to start out somehow. Women don’t respond to intelligence or sensitivity in a man, despite what they say, at least not beyond a certain point.

    At the end of the day, if you want to date out of your league you need to have money or serious game. Serious game takes time. I’d much rather use money thank you very much. At least that’s how it was when i was dating women in Australia. Now i only date foreign women, and i don’t necessarily need to show off money with them.

    • April 28, 2012 at 9:42 am #

      What? Have you read much feminist work?

      When you talk to a beautiful woman in a bar or a coffeeshop, do they recite feminist work to ward you away? Do they accuse you of being part of the patriarchy?

      Great, but what’s your success rate? Money helps speed up the process considerably.

      I am in a relationship at the moment… finding the right girl is my style. At the same time, I have more friends than I have time to keep up with, and the means to find more easily if so. Life is great.

      A wise man once said to me, “set up an ecosystem where beautiful women drift into and out of your life.” It works.

      Money is helpful, but if you are compensating with money, you are doing it wrong.

      Women don’t respond to intelligence or sensitivity in a man, despite what they say, at least not beyond a certain point.

      That is your belief, and you have made it true.

      At the end of the day, if you want to date out of your league you need to have money or serious game. Serious game takes time. I’d much rather use money thank you very much.

      More limiting beliefs. I would say your experience does not reflect my experience, and I am a short, squat, geeky young man.

      Generally it’s an issue of diminishing returns. You don’t need serious game, all you need is basic game. Serious game helps you with the 1% cases, basic changes help you with 70% cases. So overcommitting to serious game is not an issue. You don’t need to be a kung fu master to avoid being mugged on the street, for example… a few basic moves and common sense will reduce your mortality rate considerably. It’s the same with game… a little goes a long way, even though serious game is required to be a master.

      They are just a little more subtle about it, and you have to know what to look for, but it’s there, absolutely.

      That sounds like paranoia on your part to me. If they really hold those sentiments, they will die lonely spinsters, shooting themselves in both feet.

      Do you really want to be with women like that? Their problems should be their own. Instead find woman, beautiful women like Samantha and say to them “aww I saw the boss give you a hard time because you are showing her up. Let’s get out of here, I know a good coffee place we can talk.”

      Because if you look for crazy feminists, you will find them everywhere, and it will dishearten you. As I’ve said to Jason before, if you think love is a battlefield, all you will find are enemies.

      If you’re in Melbourne we can meet up and talk about this if you like. If so, send a mail with your mobile number to intentiousinfo@gmail.com and ask for me.

  24. Anonymous
    April 30, 2012 at 11:51 pm #

    Bios, as a young woman I must say your last post intrigued me. I’m just curious, what physical deficiencies are forcing you to rely on money to attract good looking women, whether real or perceived? Do you feel so unworthy of an attractive woman’s love that you must effectively buy it? And what level of attractiveness are we talking about? What is the minimum threshold required for you to pay attention to a woman? I’m presuming that as a man of means you have no interest in dating average looking women? Is it really our shallowness or your bitterness that is ultimately the problem

    As for Brick, i think she is right but also somewhat delusional!

    • May 1, 2012 at 6:04 am #

      As for Brick, i think she is right but also somewhat delusional!

      Quoted for truth.

      Your comments on Bios are also well placed.

  25. Bios
    May 1, 2012 at 5:44 pm #

    RICHARD:”When you talk to a beautiful woman in a bar or a coffeeshop, do they recite feminist work to ward you away? Do they accuse you of being part of the patriarchy?”

    How is this relevant? Most of these ideas are part of the way culture works now. Most women are not conscious of it.

    Money is helpful, but if you are compensating with money, you are doing it wrong.

    “That is your belief, and you have made it true.”

    You are probably the first man i’ve met in a while that actually believes women are attracted to those qualities in a lover(beyond a certain point). ;-)

    “More limiting beliefs. I would say your experience does not reflect my experience, and I am a short, squat, geeky young man.”

    I’m not a geek, but i’m a short guy with a receding hairline. Short men are like eunichs in the dating world. that’s the absolute truth. Has nothing to do with perspective. If we were 6 foot, our options would greatly increase.

    “Their problems should be their own. Instead find woman, beautiful women like Samantha and say to them “aww I saw the boss give you a hard time because you are showing her up. Let’s get out of here, I know a good coffee place we can talk.”

    Nah, you just end up in the friend zone pulling stunts like that ;-)

    “If you’re in Melbourne we can meet up and talk about this if you like. If so, send a mail with your mobile number to intentiousinfo@gmail.com and ask for me.”

    Thanks. I’ll get back to you on it sometime in the future.

    • May 1, 2012 at 6:07 pm #

      You are probably the first man i’ve met in a while that actually believes women are attracted to those qualities in a lover(beyond a certain point).

      I believe because it works for me. It works for me because I make it true.

      It sounds like you need to spend more time with dudes who don’t equate money with meeting friends and lovers. Instead value should be tied to capability, self-esteem and worthiness. That is what wins over the people that matter.

      If we were 6 foot, our options would greatly increase.

      Short man with a receding hairline. I wonder where I’ve seen that before.

      Everyone is dealt a different hand, and not everyone is blessed with Samantha’s looks or a giant’s height.

      It’s not the hand that you’re dealt with that determines the final outcome.

      It’s how you use that hand.

      If you say, “if only….” guess what, if only will never change. But you can change the outcome right now by making a few little but important choices, and running with those.

      Despair not over what you cannot change, but improve on the things that you can change.

      Most women are not conscious of it.

      Name a specific instance where a woman’s feminism stopped you from saying hi to her.

      If you cannot name a specific instance, “not conscious of it” means “I’ve never seen it.” At that point, I’d say you’re looking for another excuse to abjure your own need to act. By placing blame, we absolve ourselves of responsibility.

      Nah, you just end up in the friend zone pulling stunts like that

      Two things. Firstly, you only end up in the friend zone if you don’t know what you’re doing.

      Secondly, what if I told you the friend zone doesn’t exist?? It only exists if you believe it does and take steps to make it happen.

      You should be dating a woman who is as good looking, if not better looking than Samantha. And she should be intelligent, strong and loving, and not vapid and delusional as Ms Brick demonstrated. That’s what you deserve.

      But you have to earn it.

      First you have to change the way you think. Then you have to live the way you’ve changed. This is not an easy process, but one that is always worthwhile.

  26. Bios
    May 1, 2012 at 6:02 pm #

    ANONYMOUS: “what physical deficiencies are forcing you to rely on money to attract good looking women, whether real or perceived?”

    I’m short and balding. Two major strikes in the dating world. But i do OK without money i suppose. Nowhere near as good as i do outside the Anglosphere though.

    Dating is just much easier in other countries i’ve lived in, such as Greece and France, for example.

    “Do you feel so unworthy of an attractive woman’s love that you must effectively buy it? And what level of attractiveness are we talking about?”

    Not of an ordinary attractive woman’s love, no.

    “What is the minimum threshold required for you to pay attention to a woman? I’m presuming that as a man of means you have no interest in dating average looking women?”

    Depends on the woman and the moment. I have no problem dating ‘average’ looking women(5-6 on a scale of 10), but i will not use money to pursue them, and i will not date them if they are interested in me for that reason because, imo, as crude and mean as this potentially sounds, it’s not my idea of a fair exchange. In other words, they get more out of the deal than i do, so i have no incentive to bother with them.

    And i also believe that a woman that is a 5-6 on a scale of 10 trying to get a rich man that isn’t a complete troll is drasticalliy overestimating her SMV. Most women, however, are not quite that clueless.

    “Is it really our shallowness or your bitterness that is ultimately the problem”

    To me there is a cause and effect relationship between the two to some degree, but i i’m inclined to argue that both factors are equally important ;-)

    So to recap, am i bitter? Sure, no doubt, but that does not mean that i can not see the ‘game’ for what it really is.

    • May 1, 2012 at 6:16 pm #

      You have part of the key already.

      Because here is the main question:

      Not of an ordinary attractive woman’s love, no.

      If you don’t have to pay for an ordinary woman’s love, why are you paying for a “beautiful” woman’s love? Why have you suddenly switched from being the buyer to the seller?

      To me there is a cause and effect relationship between the two to some degree,

      If you broke the cause / effect cycle, would your fortunes change?

      that does not mean that i can not see the ‘game’ for what it really is.

      No, you do not see the truth. You see a picture of reality framed by the bitterness and bad things you have experienced when dealing with women. A part of you blames the woman for it. If you change that frame, that lens with which you see reality, you connect with a lot more people.

  27. Bios
    May 6, 2012 at 7:13 pm #

    “I believe because it works for me. It works for me because I make it true.”

    again, i can’t get on with this kind of solipsistic mentality. I think there are general (socially contingent) ‘truths’ about how men and women behave in society, and how they go about getting mates. People who ignore these rules are generally less successful than those that don’t. There are exceptions of course, but i can’t base my life around exceptions like Strauss, who, to me, is an irrelevant example for various different reasons.

    “It sounds like you need to spend more time with dudes who don’t equate money with meeting friends and lovers. Instead value should be tied to capability, self-esteem and worthiness. That is what wins over the people that matter.”

    Most of my friends are not rich, and do not necessarily equate money with love. and my female friends hate the way i think about this issue, but strangely enough, many of them are also interested in dating me now, although they absolutely were not when i first met them. and i was much less ‘bitter’ back then too btw. They know i will not date them because i have zero incentive to do so.

    “It’s not the hand that you’re dealt with that determines the final outcome.

    It’s how you use that hand.”

    Sure, but your options are based on you the hand you are dealt with, which naturally affect any given outcome.

    Again, to me it’s holistic. You can’t separate one from the other.

    “Name a specific instance where a woman’s feminism stopped you from saying hi to her.

    If you cannot name a specific instance, “not conscious of it” means “I’ve never seen it.” At that point, I’d say you’re looking for another excuse to abjure your own need to act. By placing blame, we absolve ourselves of responsibility.”

    This is just missing the point. The mentality i’m referring to is the attitude about men’s ultimate value(their SMV), and the problem of approach. A lot of women are hostile towards being approached, that’s a fact, esp if they are better looking. Men have to be very careful in these situations. and in my opinion, the situation is really bad in Australia, much worse than in other countries i’ve been in.

    In my opinion, feminist entitlement has a lot to do with these kind of stuck up attitudes. In countries like Greece and Columbia, for example, it’s much easier to get to know women and consequently it’s easier to date them. In Australia, however, as well as the U.S, i honestly believe that women make up their minds about you in the first 3-5 seconds, and there are generally no second chances. It’s very difficult to hook up with them if they aren’t immediately attracted to you.

    “You should be dating a woman who is as good looking, if not better looking than Samantha And she should be intelligent, strong and loving, and not vapid and delusional as Ms Brick demonstrated. That’s what you deserve.

    But you have to earn it.”

    How do i go about ‘earning it’ exactly Richard? Experience has shown me that, on the whole, the more time you spend with a woman just talking about hanging out, the less chance you have of ever being romantic with her. So to me this whole ‘earning’ makes little sense unless you are basing your whole dating approach on faith. and i have no time for faith.

    “If you don’t have to pay for an ordinary woman’s love, why are you paying for a “beautiful” woman’s love? Why have you suddenly switched from being the buyer to the seller?”

    Social convention. ;-)

    • May 7, 2012 at 9:03 am #

      People who ignore these rules are generally less successful than those that don’t.

      The thing about Strauss is he disproves your hypothesis by exception; and you have the gall to say he is irrelevant. This is not religion, this is logic- if he can do it, you can do it too.

      Also… are these rules, which indeed are your own beliefs, are they helping you connect with the Samanthas of the world? I tell you solemnly, there are no shortage of attractive and decent women who cannot find the right man. To be with them is easy, all you need to do is show up and not be a loser. Playing not to lose, rather than playing to win.

      Again, to me it’s holistic. You can’t separate one from the other.

      They are inseperable yes, but I would say to you that you are overstating the value of what is in your hand, and as a result are not playing that hand to its best value.

      AND you can change your hand, not all of it, but part of it so that you play to your strengths.

      A lot of women are hostile towards being approached, that’s a fact, esp if they are better looking. Men have to be very careful in these situations. and in my opinion, the situation is really bad in Australia, much worse than in other countries i’ve been in.

      I don’t think you’ve done “approaching” enough to be qualified to say this. The key to making it work is a little social intelligence. To earn that social intelligence, you need to crash and burn a few times to figure out what not to do. Once you have that, it becomes easier to figure out what you do have to do.

      i honestly believe that women make up their minds about you in the first 3-5 seconds, and there are generally no second chances. It’s very difficult to hook up with them if they aren’t immediately attracted to you.

      Then you need a better first impression. Be well groomed and either a member of their tribe, or the tribe they want to visit. At one point you and any paramour you have were strangers. They may not have even been attracted to you when they first met you. If you pine over the need for having a good first impression, I’d say that is a requirement for many social endeavours.

      and i was much less ‘bitter’ back then too btw. They know i will not date them because i have zero incentive to do so.

      That bitterness, I can hear it, and I’m sure that women can hear it too. Maybe you’re not dating women like “Samantha” because you’ve decided not to. This bitterness is unbecoming.

      The easiest outcome to control is success, because you can always choose to fail. It’s an easy, and cowardly choice, and I know a man who chose that and lost the thrall of a very beautiful and very capable woman he was seeing.

      Half of winning is showing up. If you choose not to show up, you lose by default. Blaming “Samantha” and her looks for one’s choice is the easy way out of this, when really one needs to look within the self.

      If man had to be perfect to be with a woman, humanity would have died out long ago. How many drop-dead gorgeous women are dating deadbeat guys? Rationalising your challenges away does not help you in the end, especially when evidence is abundant that your fears and prejudices are your own.

      How do i go about ‘earning it’ exactly Richard?

      You don’t earn it with the woman. You earn it with yourself, in learning to have the social intuition to deal with women in a good way.

      It sounds like you encounter the friend zone because you weren’t honest upfront about your intentions, and you weren’t willing to walk when you made your intentions known. That isn’t her fault, that is something for you to work on.

      None of this is based on faith. It’s based on me getting what I want and having it. If you want something amusing based on faith, check out this celebration of ignorance lol

      Social convention.

      I would correct this and say no, it is “habit.” Social conventions are often really stupid, nonsensical and anachronistic. There is partial sense in them, but you need to distill the partial sense out so that you know when to break or bin a social convention to get the results you want.

      The thing that is rarer than a beautiful woman is a man who is worthy. I have seen that, and I know. And I use that every day.

      solipsistic

      ooh i learned a new word today.

      The key with this solipsism… it is the rudder on your ship. It doesn’t change your life, but it changes the way you see life. And if you see life in a different way, you can change it for the better, by using the rudder to change course.

      Dream mediocre dreams, and you will have mediocre results. Dream big, and get started today.

      To conclude, I would say you are wasting time arguing with me. When you actually want to change, you will stop defending your current position, open your mind and try something new. Right now you are defending a reality that isn’t very attractive, because you have invested in it and it is your reality. If you change that reality and how you deal with people, your fortunes will change as well.

      I used to think as you did, until I went out there and found the answers I wanted. My answers are rooted in logic, field testing and science, although a little faith does help to tide you over when experiments are uncertain or underway.

      When you want to change for the better, let me know. Otherwise, enjoy finding feminists to spar with and not spending it with the woman of your dreams.

  28. Bios
    May 6, 2012 at 7:15 pm #

    “talking about hanging out”

    Just talking and hanging out.

    “If you broke the cause / effect cycle, would your fortunes change?”

    No, it wouldn’t, because i adjust myself accordingly.

  29. Bios
    May 11, 2012 at 9:42 pm #

    re:Strauss: PUA is living proof that these social rules are very much ‘real’, even if they have only been reached through intersubjective agreement. Game does not exist in a vacuum. It’s a direct response to an increasingly hostile dating environment. If the dating world wasn’t the way it is, there would be no need for PUA, Game or any of that elaborate pick up nonsense.

    “I don’t think you’ve done “approaching” enough to be qualified to say this.”

    Sure, but my opinions are based on the recognition of cultural restraints, or the lack thereof, and they vary from culture to culture. I can tell you that, having experienced dating in at least 5 other countries–i.e countries i’ve lived in, not just visited–Australia is by far the worst for dating. Most well travelled guys i know believe the same. Part of it is due to feminist entitlement, but it’s also because Australian women generally lack sophistication. It’s not their fault of course, Australia is a cultural wasteland compared to other places i’ve lived in like France and Greece, but i find the women in this country very hard to get along with because of it. To me they just aren’t interesting and expect men to be like clowns for their amusement. And before you tell me that i’ve been hanging out with the wrong women, save it. I’ve known plenty of ‘intelligent’ Australian women in my time, and no, they do not compare to the ones i used to hook up with in France and Greece, and they are generally not as good looking either.

    Anyway, i enjoy having intelligent conversations about art, film, literature etc, and Australian women are generally turned off by that. Even the bimbos in Greece i dated were at least interested in the fact that i was knowledgeable about these subjects, regardless of their level of understanding. Bimbos here, on the other hand, love tradies. And most Australian women into things like art and philosophy are plain or ugly, that’s the bottom line.

    If you see a beautiful woman in a Melbourne museum attending an exhibition that is _not_ billed as a major cultural event–which typically brings all the posers out of the woodwork–it’s because she either A)lost, B)a tourist, or C)a rare exception.

    “The key to making it work is a little social intelligence. To earn that social intelligence, you need to crash and burn a few times to figure out what not to do. Once you have that, it becomes easier to figure out what you do have to do.”

    sorry, i have to LOL this comment. I’ve had plenty of experience, and not just in Australia either, hence why i’m able to make a comparison.

    “Then you need a better first impression. Be well groomed”

    Being well groomed is not a problem for me.

    Honestly Richard, quit this 101 crap mate. I know all this stuff. It’s old news. I don’t mind suggestions or criticisms, but most of your ‘recommendations’ are pretty condescending. What do you think, i just walk around in jeans and a t-shirt every day and night when i can afford to wear some of the best Italian suits?

    I got a complete stylistic makeover a long time ago Richard. Grooming _used_ to be a problem of mine, all the way back in the early 00’s.

    “How many drop-dead gorgeous women are dating deadbeat guys?”

    I’m beginning to suspect that we have a very different idea about what constitutes a ‘drop-dead gorgeous woman’.

    “It sounds like you encounter the friend zone because you weren’t honest upfront about your intentions, and you weren’t willing to walk when you made your intentions known.”

    I have not been in the friend zone for almost 10 years. I actively avoid it. The friend zone is cultural too btw. I did not experience this behaviour much overseas. The categories tend to be more fluid.

    “I used to think as you did”

    And i used to think the way you do too.

    “When you want to change for the better, let me know. Otherwise, enjoy finding feminists to spar with and not spending it with the woman of your dreams.”

    Hey Richard, what makes you think i’m not spending time with the woman of my dreams? I told you before that i only date foreign women now, and i don’t need to show off money to get nice looking foreign girls. I have no problem dating foreign(i.e European, excluding the north, and South American) women, because they are generally more interesting to talk to. They actually have something of value to contribute to discussions, and they are far less likely to overrate their SMV.

    My last four girlfriends were from Greece, Italy, Ukraine, and Mexico respectively. Only needed money to attract the attention of the girl from Ukraine, but she was a complete knock out. I’m dating a woman from Greece right now and she is very attractive, believe me.

    “Right now you are defending a reality that isn’t very attractive”

    Whether it’s attractive or not isn’t the issue as far as i’m concerned.

    • May 13, 2012 at 6:00 pm #

      Well this is meant to be challenging, after all the site is called “Intentious”. Here are my responses.

      It’s a direct response to an increasingly hostile dating environment. If the dating world wasn’t the way it is, there would be no need for PUA, Game or any of that elaborate pick up nonsense.

      You entirely misunderstand the purpose of it, hence your dilemma. Firstly, as I have said ad nauseum times, if you see love as a battlefield, all you will find are enemies. That is what you mean by “hostile”… I find no such hostility in my own circles and the places I meet people.

      Secondly, this information has always existed, but there is a taboo to “demystifying” the dating game, as if we are expected to stumble in the dark and find this stuff out ourselves. Thankfully, in the Internet age, this is no longer necessary. There has always been a necessity for this, even moreso now that there are fewer arranged marriages, women can vote and are no longer “property”. That is good… it allows us to love women as people, rather than as trophies or servants.

      Finally, when you say “elaborate pick up nonsense” you entirely miss the point of the lesson. The lesson is not to use something to deceive a woman into having sex with you, no. The point is to learn a lesson about how social circles operate and to use and exploit this knowledge to shortcut the dating process. It is not about using a magic bullet to trick someone, it is about learning how to use and re-use a tool.

      For example, how many times have people asked you today, “How is work”? If you gave the same answer to every person, would that be unexpected? So, by extension, if you ask the same question to ten women, and get the same positive answer, would that be somehow, “nonsense”?

      Because you never understood the point of it, the lesson is lost on you. The exact words or question itself were not the lesson, it is the IDEA that it was trying to communicate to you that is the real lesson. And to appreciate the IDEA behind the words, one has to try the lesson and know it to the point of how and why it works, and when it won’t work. Your ignorance being betrayed in two words: elaborate nonsense. If you knew the point of it, you’d realise it is easy and it works.

      Australia is by far the worst for dating….Australia is a cultural wasteland compared to other places… but i find the women in this country very hard to get along with because of it. To me they just aren’t interesting and expect men to be like clowns for their amusement. And before you tell me that i’ve been hanging out with the wrong women, save it. I’ve known plenty of ‘intelligent’ Australian women in my time, and no, they do not compare to the ones i used to hook up with in France and Greece, and they are generally not as good looking either.

      A shame you disparage your country so. I would say your contempt for your home nation comes out in your dating choices. If you say to your subconscious, “all Australian shelias are horrible” you will find women who make it true. It is a self-fulfilling prophesy.

      Until you open your mind and undo it, you will find yourself in this place. This place doesn’t matter because there are other places from which you can find the women you want to be with, which is commendable. At the same time, you remain shackled with all these limiting beliefs that prevent you from meeting engaging people in your homeland. This prejudice and bitterness is regretable.

      Bimbos here, on the other hand, love tradies.

      What’s not to love about them? They are well built, they have swagger and a lot of them have money. Not very sophisticated yes, but neither are they pretentious nor elitist as scholars tend to be. And it is good in that way that Australian women do not like pretentious men; it makes it easier to deal with them. One can slowly introduce them to nights at the opera or fine dining anyway; I have done this before.

      PS: why are you so intent on dating bimbos? I am dating a woman who is smart and pretty. Is that too much to ask?

      And most Australian women into things like art and philosophy are plain or ugly, that’s the bottom line.

      May I suggest that you are not looking hard enough. Either that, or you are looking for someone who is in awe of your scholarly ways, rather than looking for an equal. I can see why it is easier to enthrall foreign women.

      C)a rare exception.

      I only date those!

      sorry, i have to LOL this comment. I’ve had plenty of experience, and not just in Australia either, hence why i’m able to make a comparison.

      I am surprised that you have come out the other side of your learnings with so much bitterness in your heart. The other men I have met who are good with women of any culture have experience, and that experience precludes having any form of your bitterness. Maybe because they love women, rather than disparage them. They look for reasons to make love, rather than reasons to loathe, as you seem to be looking for in terms of our local talent.

      but most of your ‘recommendations’ are pretty condescending.

      That’s what Australian women think when you spout all this cultural crap to them lol. IF you know all this stuff, why are you complaining that women don’t give you the time of day in Australia, and keep getting burned by it? If this is 101 stuff that you know, you should be out slaying in droves and schooling me. Instead you come here, blaming women for things you should already know. Things such as, “Australian women don’t date short men unless they are paid off like hookers”, if you had the experience 101, you should know this is false.

      So, humour me.

      I got a complete stylistic makeover a long time ago Richard. Grooming _used_ to be a problem of mine, all the way back in the early 00’s.

      Has your luck improved afterwards? I would say not if you hold the same prejudices as before your makeover.

      That is what surprises me most. Before and after your journey you still harbour the same bitterness. For me, after my journey, I learned to love women, and to connect with them, to accept and understand them. And the ones that matter, the ones I want to keep up with, they accept and understand me. I don’t have enough hours in the day to keep up with all of them. In contrast, you have found every reason to hate the ones in Australia. I hope you live in France or Greece, because it looks like you will be hard pressed to find love here.

      It is easy to go on a journey, but it is hard to learn so little. That is why, sadly, I am so surprised.

      I’m beginning to suspect that we have a very different idea about what constitutes a ‘drop-dead gorgeous woman’.

      Your definition of a gorgeous woman will differ from every other man’s. The question is, are you dating the one you want, and are you happy. I have very specific taste and have found what I want. Have you?

      I have not been in the friend zone for almost 10 years. I actively avoid it. The friend zone is cultural too btw. I did not experience this behaviour much overseas. The categories tend to be more fluid.

      Very good. I commend you for avoiding it.

      I’m dating a woman from Greece right now and she is very attractive, believe me.

      Well, that is all that matters. You will only need to seek again if and when that falls through. May that never happen.

      You have a lot of negativity, stereotypes and prejudice still burdening you, and that will unnecessarily limit you in whom you connect with. That is what is unattractive about you reality. While you never have to confront these limits, you will retain them. There may come a day that you seek greater places to find that which you seek. You have to want to change before you enact change, but that day is not today, or so it would seem.

      I must offer you one thanks. My chat with you has inspired me to add a few words to my book.

      In the meantime, I will be eating this chocolate, raspberry and port jelly tart that has been cooked for me. Be well.

  30. Bios
    May 13, 2012 at 9:58 pm #

    “You entirely misunderstand the purpose of it, hence your dilemma”

    Do you really think men needed pick up artists to tell them how to get women 30-40 years ago? How do you explain the prevalence of the PUA industry if not for the fact that it’s a response to the current dating environment? And is it really a coincidence that most of this stuff comes from the U.S? I say you are one who is missing the forest for the trees, and perhaps lack a historical perspective on the issue.

    PUA is widespread because the old dating rules are irrelevant.

    “This place doesn’t matter because there are other places from which you can find the women you want to be with, which is commendable.”

    It means i’m proactive, yes. I have resolved my personal ‘dilemma’.

    “And it i good in that way that Australian women do not like pretentious men; it makes it easier to deal with them”

    That is debatable. It means they place more emphasis on our looks, our money, and our ability to make them ‘laugh’ like a hyena.

    “PS: why are you so intent on dating bimbos? I am dating a woman who is smart and pretty. Is that too much to ask?”

    I’m not, i just made a simple comparison between two kinds of bimbos.

    Bimbos can be fun to date though provided they recognise their place and are not bitter or bitchy about it. i’d take a sweet bimbo over the average university educated

    “May I suggest that you are not looking hard enough”

    Given the kind of circles i roam in, or have roamed in, it would be difficult for me to look much harder.

    “Either that, or you are looking for someone who is in awe of your scholarly ways, rather than looking for an equal. I can see why it is easier to enthrall foreign women.”

    Why would it would be easier for me to ‘enthrall foreign women’? You don’t believe those tired old feminist tropes about Aussie women wanting an equal, and any Aussie man that can’t deal with it is looking for a submissive wife or partner? ;-)

    I don’t enthrall foreign women Richard, they are just more likely to find me interesting because they are culturally engaged themselves. I find it easier to find like minded women overseas. I also find them more passionate too. Aussie girls to me are more ‘cold'(at least compared to Greek women anyway hehe), and are dead fish romantically.

    “And it is good in that way that Australian women do not like pretentious men; it makes it easier to deal with them.”

    yes and no. I think it just means that more emphasis is placed on our looks and money rather than how we engage with the outside world.

    And i find Australian women to be pretentious anyway, particularly middle class career women.

    “One can slowly introduce them to nights at the opera or fine dining anyway; I have done this before.”

    In my experience, most women appreciate fine dining because it generally costs money ;-)

    Opera, on the other hand, would be a difficult sell. I’m so glad that my current gf enjoys so many of the things i do. e.g philosophy, art, classical music, jazz, folk culture etc. I have never met an Australian woman as attractive as her that understands Kantian epistemology and appreciates the sounds of Arvo Part. I bet a female friend of mine 10,000 dollars 6 months ago that she couldn’t find one. and btw, i don’t expect her to pay me if i lose, that’s how confident i am, plus she can’t afford it anyway ;-)

    and my Greek gf finds Aussie women dull and empty too btw.

    “PS: why are you so intent on dating bimbos? I am dating a woman who is smart and pretty. Is that too much to ask?”

    I’m not, i was just comparing two different kinds of bimbos. Btw, i do enjoy the company of attractive bimbos, provided they are sweet of course.
    e

    “Maybe because they love women, rather than disparage them”

    ‘Loving women’ is stupid. You love the woman you are with, or the women close to you, not women, or even people, in general. Love, like respect, must be earned, otherwise it’s worthless.

    “IF you know all this stuff, why are you complaining that women don’t give you the time of day in Australia, and keep getting burned by it? If this is 101 stuff that you know, you should be out slaying in droves and schooling me. Instead you come here, blaming women for things you should already know”

    Well that’s why i date foreign women mostly Richard. It’s just interesting conversation to me. Sorry you don’t feel the same way ;-)

    “Has your luck improved afterwards? I would say not if you hold the same prejudices as before your makeover.”

    Women do not have telepahy mate, despite what they think. If they did, why can’t they spot a jerk from a mile away? The reality is that a woman is no better at picking out a jerk from a bitter loser. She will just make superficial snap judgements about the man she deems to be a loser. It’s funny because i have put this to the test several times. I love conducting little social experiments when i’m bored.

    And to answer your question yes, my luck did improve.

    “Before and after your journey you still harbour the same bitterness. For me, after my journey”

    That is incorrect. I’m probably more bitter now, at least with the process anyway.

    “I hope you live in France or Greece, because it looks like you will be hard pressed to find love here.”

    I will eventually move to Greece. It’s only a matter of time.

    “Well, that is all that matters. You will only need to seek again if and when that falls through. May that never happen.”

    Thanks.

    “I must offer you one thanks. My chat with you has inspired me to add a few words to my book.”

    What book?

    “In the meantime, I will be eating this chocolate, raspberry and port jelly tart that has been cooked for me. Be well.”

    Sounds nice!!!

    Later

  31. May 13, 2012 at 11:38 pm #

    PUA is widespread because the old dating rules are irrelevant.

    What precisely are the old dating rules? Do tell.

    PUA is nothing new, no. It is just a means to exploit social rituals to shortcut the dating process. Before the advent of the Internet, that information had to be obtained through trial and error, and without imagination, one could never find that out. But now you can google, buy or plan anything using information from all over the world. That is what has changed, and if you’re smart you can do it for free or very low cost.

    I have resolved my personal ‘dilemma’.

    You have resolved your dilemma by going around it. The minefield you have built in your heart remains, hence your replies to this article.

    It means they place more emphasis on our looks, our money, and our ability to make them ‘laugh’ like a hyena.

    That is not my experience. It means that you don’t have to be as sophisticated to connect with some of these women, which is a great thing. With looks come an expectation, with money comes an expectation… with neither it comes down to how well you relate to the other person, without compensating with looks or money.

    You have the “benefit” of being a foreigner to the women you are dating. I remember turning up to a city pub with my American friend… women just loved his accent and just started chatting to him out of the blue. You are lucky they find your persona exotic and refreshing, which works in your favour. I take it you are not one for challenges, but may I suggest that the reason you cannot connect with Aussie women is because you lack that handicap?

    understands Kantian epistemology and appreciates the sounds of Arvo Part.

    No idea what that is, but am still yet to find a woman who is interested in orbital elevators, o’neill cylinders and Von Neumann probes. So you are lucky to find someone who understands those things.

    Nevertheless, with every paramour and friend I’ve had the honour of spending time with, the topic of fascinating conversation has been different. I think the key is to be a great listener, before being a good talker, and to be open to all knowledge. Saying what is on one’s heart is less important than listening to the stories of others to distill the wisdom within.

    In my experience, most women appreciate fine dining because it generally costs money

    I love fine dining, and to eat such food in pleasurable company. My friends and I either go dutch, or take turns. So it does even out overall for me. There are many times women insist on paying after a chat and eating at a nice restaurant. And going to nice restaurants in itself makes great conversation.

    and my Greek gf finds Aussie women dull and empty too btw.

    Is she a lesbian? Otherwise she is not qualified to speak on the matter, because she’s never had to date one lol.

    ‘Loving women’ is stupid. You love the woman you are with, or the women close to you, not women, or even people, in general. Love, like respect, must be earned, otherwise it’s worthless.

    I like scorpions. Why? Because they are efficient killing machines. I still keep well away from them, because I respect them.

    I love women. Why? Because they are hopeful, surprising and unpredictable. They still have to earn my trust, and my respect, but I love them for being challenging and accept them for being who they are.

    I love my enemies. Why? Because they provide a challenge in life, frustrating or not. They remind me of my mortality, and the importance for vigilance. They provide me an opportunity to indulge in vengeance, which is most pleasurable. Finally, they remind me that to keep negativity in the heart is a poison, so I waste no time hating them. Too busy loving everybody else.

    Do you now understand, how it is possible to love? I learned that one from Jesus. He was a pretty wise fellow.

    If they did, why can’t they spot a jerk from a mile away?

    I have the answer to that one… men and women date “projects” that reflect a home situation they could never change. They do not know what to test for- they are stumbling through life like us men are. Because jerks are confident, and they mistake that confidence for depth of character.

    So it is easy to win these women over… be confident, be strong without being a jerk. Easy.

    She will just make superficial snap judgements about the man she deems to be a loser.

    It doesn’t happen very often if you can guess a person’s motivation and model their reactions.

    It’s funny because i have put this to the test several times. I love conducting little social experiments when i’m bored.

    Do explain your experiments. I am interested.

    I’m probably more bitter now, at least with the process anyway.

    Explain how you became more bitter… you changed, your situation improved, your luck improved… yet you feel even more bitter. Is it because of the cynical feeling that you would rather have been who you were, rather than what you are now?

    I will eventually move to Greece. It’s only a matter of time.

    With the results of that last election, you may want to waylay that!

  32. Bios
    May 15, 2012 at 10:56 pm #

    “What precisely are the old dating rules? Do tell.”

    Chivalry, romance, LTR’s etc. Dating rules change when attitudes towards sexuality change. In the current environment, it’s not enough for a young man to simply be a nice guy or a provider. He has to bring other things to the table. That is where game comes in.

    “You have the “benefit” of being a foreigner to the women you are dating. I remember turning up to a city pub with my American friend… women just loved his accent and just started chatting to him out of the blue. You are lucky they find your persona exotic and refreshing, which works in your favour. I take it you are not one for challenges, but may I suggest that the reason you cannot connect with Aussie women is because you lack that handicap?”

    I seriously doubt it. In my experience, at least in the countries i’ve lived in, Australian men do not have much exotic appeal. American and British women like them, but that’s about it.

    In countries like Greece, i’d say being ‘Australian’ probably counts against you in the dating world hahah.

    However, i will concede that in some countries being a foreigner works. it really depends on the country though, and where you are from.

    “Do you now understand, how it is possible to love? I learned that one from Jesus. He was a pretty wise fellow.”

    Not really, but if it works for you, so be it ;-)

    “Do explain your experiments. I am interested.”

    It’s not that interesting. I just like to mess with my image a bit, and the image of my friends, to see how differently we are treated, particularly by members of the opposite sex. I’ve lent many of my friends nice suits and cars etc, and the response they get from women is amazing.

    “Explain how you became more bitter… you changed, your situation improved, your luck improved… yet you feel even more bitter. Is it because of the cynical feeling that you would rather have been who you were, rather than what you are now?”

    That is definitely part of it, for sure, but there is a little more to it. The irony is that three of the most attractive women i ever had before money came into the picture was when i looked ‘bad’, at least by conventional standards anyway. i.e long hair, beard, nose ring , or overweight. etc. One of them was my sister’s friend, who was in her final year of high school at the time–i was 20 btw–and she just became attracted to me over the course of maybe 6-12 months, perhaps even earlier. She thought i was a genuine, sincere guy and just wanted to be with me. I concede Richard that occasionally when women get to know you better they can develop feelings, even if you are not their physical ideal. However, i do not think it happens very often, and therefore would not recommend this ‘approach’ to others. Also, in today’s age, people are time pressed, so the chances of this happening are slim to none.

    And before you ask, yes, i have reflected on why this might have been the case. Firstly, it’s because i have a relatively ‘strong’ character, while being ‘soft’ at the same time. I have tried my best to integrate these two aspects of my personality. Secondly, she had emotional issues, which, to me, partially explains her attraction to me. I made her feel ‘safe’ apparently.

    As for me not being up for a challenge, that definitely isn’t true. But i do weigh up the pros and cons before taking it on.

    • May 17, 2012 at 9:41 am #

      Chivalry, romance, LTR’s etc. Dating rules change when attitudes towards sexuality change. In the current environment, it’s not enough for a young man to simply be a nice guy or a provider. He has to bring other things to the table.

      They all still work, I make them work for me. The key is timing. The worst move done at the right time can be the right move.

      As to your second point, nice guys do finish last, for this reason: you become a doormat if you lie down. Always be standing, and make sure that anyone who receives your respect has earned it. A woman doesn’t like it when her man gets trampled on… it’s kinda hard to rely on him at that point…

      I know these are all dating 101 that you know, but I they are my views and I’d like to make sure they are clear.

      In countries like Greece, i’d say being ‘Australian’ probably counts against you in the dating world hahah.

      Please do explain “how it counts against you.” It would form the basis of an idea I would test in my own experiments.

      One note… you aren’t ethnically Greek, are you?

      I just like to mess with my image a bit, and the image of my friends, to see how differently we are treated, particularly by members of the opposite sex. I’ve lent many of my friends nice suits and cars etc, and the response they get from women is amazing.

      I can see how being dressed the part makes you more likely to land the sale, so to speak. I agree on this point. I have a theory that encompasses this item that I may write an article about or explain one day ( the article won’t appear on a “controversial articles” site lol). The theory will definitely make an appearance in my book.

      However, i do not think it happens very often, and therefore would not recommend this ‘approach’ to others.

      … still itching to explain that theory to you lol….

  33. Anonymous
    May 17, 2012 at 7:08 pm #

    I can’t decide whether Bios is digging his own grave further or not LOL

    Can you please explain to me what you mean by the comment that bimbos are fine as long as they sweet and know their place? Are you saying that ‘bimbos’ are only good for sex and that’s it? That they aren’t people with feelings?

    I must side with Richard here. I’m guessing the problem may have stemmed from bad early experiences with the opposite sex and you then formulated guide rules from an extremely small sample group. I agree that Aussie women can be superficial and perhaps lack the substance of certain ‘foreign’ ladies you have associated with, and i think it’s great that you have found your match overseas, but we really aren’t all that bad. Seriously!

    My advice to you Bios is to not give up on Australian women if you insist on staying in this country. It may be harder for you to connect with us, but surely there are women out there for you that would love to date you, regardless of your financial situation. You seem like an interesting guy and that’s at least a start.

  34. Cire
    May 18, 2012 at 8:47 am #

    OMG! I am having the same problem. I’ve lost friends and get that “you think you’re something” look from women all the time. I’ve been married for 20 years, happily, and am not interested in competing for men. Most women have low self esteem and are threatened by women who are attractive, confident and good nature. Perhaps if they take care of their own grass they might enjoy the summer breeze.

    • countrymom
      May 20, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

      I too have this problem. I’m in my early 40’s, have been married almost 15 years and am perfectly happy. I have two children, I work, and consider myself just like everyone else. But I have found that when trying to make new friends with other couples sometimes I feel like I have to go the extra mile to prove that I’m a decent person and not a bimbo. About a year ago I was in the store with my daughter just shopping and minding my own business when a woman standing in the aisle with her two daughters says ” Shes got f*** me written all over her” pointing at me. I was wearing plaid, knee length shorts and a loose fitting shirt. No make up or jewelry. That wasn’t the first time I’ve had someone make a rude comment to or about me in front of my children……perfect strangers. The way I look at it is, until you do me harm I have nothing against you. Don’t hate me until I give you a reason to.

      • Cyn
        May 21, 2012 at 12:19 am #

        Countrymom. I have the same issues, I am divorced and currently live in Cheyenne Wyoming. I am from NYC, 48 years old, work out all the time and yes I like to look nice and take care of my appearance. I get the ups and downs and I get the rude stares. I get the comments but like a true NYC girl from the Bronx, I open my mouth and tell them what I think of them as well, that usually gets the mouths wide opened and the comments done with right off the bat. It is not about the makeup and the clothes, you carry yourself like a lady and have confidence and that alone is intimidating to women who have no self esteem. Keep being you :)

  35. Bios
    May 19, 2012 at 5:07 pm #

    “Please do explain “how it counts against you.” It would form the basis of an idea I would test in my own experiments.”

    Because they think Australians are idiots :-)

    “One note… you aren’t ethnically Greek, are you?”

    Yes i am. That is part of what makes it easier for me, at least somewhat.

    “I just like to mess with my image a bit, and the image of my friends, to see how differently

    “I can see how being dressed the part makes you more likely to land the sale, so to speak. I agree on this point. I have a theory that encompasses this item that I may write an article about or explain one day ( the article won’t appear on a “controversial articles” site lol). The theory will definitely make an appearance in my book.

    However, i do not think it happens very often, and therefore would not recommend this ‘approach’ to others.

    … still itching to explain that theory to you lol….”

    When is your book due? ;-)

    Anonymous: What i mean by that is that i like bimbos that don’t try to act like they are somehow smart and just accept that they are what they are. As long as they aren’t bitchy, i have no problem with them whatsoever and often enjoy their company. Sex has nothing to do with it. It is not my primary motivation for hanging out with them. I enjoy their company because i find them less demanding overall, and believe it or not, more appreciative. I absolutely value their feelings, that’s why i treat them so well.

    As for Australian women, since i’m off the market, i have no interest in dating them(obviously). I have many Aussie women friends, and that’s enough for me ;-)

    • May 24, 2012 at 11:31 am #

      Because they think Australians are idiots :-)

      Well it is hard to convince someone you are likeable when you believe they are an idiot and treat them with contempt. Mutual respect is a requirement.

      Yes i am. That is part of what makes it easier for me, at least somewhat.

      Well I’m ethnically asian and prefer oriental women myself. I have more in common and better knowledge of cultural sensitivies. At the same time I am close enough to the cultural line to relate to Australian women. It’s okay to have preferences, but it is not okay, in my mind, to rationalise and excuse those preferences to tar a group with a stereotype.

      When is your book due?

      I’m taking my time to write it. I’ll post here when it’s done.

      As for Australian women, since i’m off the market, i have no interest in dating them(obviously). I have many Aussie women friends, and that’s enough for me

      Be wary of treating them with contempt lol. You speaking on here with an anonymous moniker is probably smart.

  36. Bios
    May 26, 2012 at 9:56 pm #

    “Well I’m ethnically asian and prefer oriental women myself. I have more in common and better knowledge of cultural sensitivies.”

    I prefer oriental women to Australian women too!! I’ve dated girls from Japan and Thailand. Also dated an Australian born Chinese woman too.

    “Be wary of treating them with contempt lol.”

    Choosing to not date them is hardly treating them with contempt Richard ;-)

    • May 27, 2012 at 8:46 am #

      Choosing to not date them is hardly treating them with contempt Richard

      I agree, choosing not to date them is not contempt.

      But I will remind you of what you said, not to condemn you but to ensure there is some consistency. This is to establish that this is not a matter of preference but internal prejudice.

      These statements are contemptuous of Aussie women:

      In Australia, however, as well as the U.S, i honestly believe that women make up their minds about you in the first 3-5 seconds, and there are generally no second chances. It’s very difficult to hook up with them if they aren’t immediately attracted to you.

      And i find Australian women to be pretentious anyway, particularly middle class career women.

      If you see a beautiful woman in a Melbourne museum attending an exhibition that is _not_ billed as a major cultural event–which typically brings all the posers out of the woodwork–it’s because she either A)lost, B)a tourist, or C)a rare exception.

      Bimbos here, on the other hand, love tradies. And most Australian women into things like art and philosophy are plain or ugly, that’s the bottom line.

      Australia is a cultural wasteland compared to other places i’ve lived in like France and Greece, but i find the women in this country very hard to get along with because of it. To me they just aren’t interesting and expect men to be like clowns for their amusement. And before you tell me that i’ve been hanging out with the wrong women, save it. I’ve known plenty of ‘intelligent’ Australian women in my time, and no, they do not compare to the ones i used to hook up with in France and Greece, and they are generally not as good looking either.

    • May 28, 2012 at 10:38 am #

      An amusing video that Jason introduced to me in another medium, explaining why you shouldn’t use money to attract women:

  37. Bios
    May 27, 2012 at 6:58 pm #

    ^^Eh? I have no intention of denying what i said. I know what you said. You will never be able to catch me out Richard. I’m very consistent, and to prove it, read on:

    I’d say it only qualifies as prejudice if i wasn’t willing to believe that there are exceptions. As i’ve said before,i firmly believe that humans _generally_ function from cultural directives, irrespective of what they claim or say. In Australia, i think the message women get is that it’s ok for them to be culturally ignorant as long as they are pretty. Education, to them, is purely a matter of credentialism, as it is for the rest of Australian society. In other words, Australian women care about your academic qualifications provided they are able to confer society advantage. That is the impression i get from them, and this impression has only strengthened after living overseas. And because they aren’t expected to know much beyond the obvious or the essential, it stands to reason that you won’t find that many really attractive women into culture or the arts. For me the problem is cultural, not individual. Culture is above the individual, unless that individual is powerful enough to change it, which is rarely the case.

    It’s not really their fault, it’s just that Australians value pragmatism far too much. As a nation we simply lack imagination. Probably explains why we have had such little influence on the outside world.

    • May 27, 2012 at 9:04 pm #

      I could speak more of your contentious stereotyping, which is plain to see and I will leave for other readers to come to their own conclusions.

      Instead, I encourage you to write a guest Intentious article on the subject, the heading being “Aussie women aren’t worth dating”. Sure you’ll cop some flak… Freedom of speech is fraught with such things but it’ll give you pause when others test your idea.

      Only if you’re up for it of course. Please consider.

  38. Bios
    May 27, 2012 at 7:25 pm #

    btw Richard, if you want to see Aussie pragmatism in relation to education at work, just ask the average Australian what they think the value of arts or science degrees are. Most will say ‘toilet paper’ or some variation thereof haha.

    Did not experience that attitude overseas. The concept of education being an experience is absolutely lost on most Australians.

    • May 27, 2012 at 9:08 pm #

      Ironically, I’d say that Asian parents share the disdain for arts and science degrees. If their children aren’t lawyers, doctors, accountants or engineers making money….

  39. Bios
    June 5, 2012 at 6:42 pm #

    “could speak more of your contentious stereotyping, which is plain to see and I will leave for other readers to come to their own conclusions.”

    I’d say that you don’t know the qualitative difference between a generalisation and a stereotype. Generalisations have a place in cultural analysis; stereotypes, on the other hand, do not.

    “Instead, I encourage you to write a guest Intentious article on the subject, the heading being “Aussie women aren’t worth dating”. Sure you’ll cop some flak… Freedom of speech is fraught with such things but it’ll give you pause when others test your idea.”

    Firstly, I never said that Aussie women were not worth dating for Aussie men. I suggested that Aussie women are not worth dating for a particular kind of Australian man. If you have misunderstood that, it’s because you have taken statements out of their wider contexts, and/or just not paying attention to what i’ve been typing. I was speaking mostly from my own experience, and the experiences of men that are similar to me. We think that Australian women are _generally_(i.e mostly, not always) a waste of time, and we have our reasons. Perhaps the title should be ‘why wealthy, educated, and cultured men should not date Australian women’? ;-)

    In regards to using money to get women, i could not watch that video. I think it depends on the culture, and the kind of women you are attracting. Was that video just full of American gold digging skanks? There is a big difference between a gold digger/social climber, and a cultured, well educated woman that is accustomed to living a certain lifestyle. The latter are in short supply in Australia, but these are the women that men with money ought to be targeting if they want to get married. The difference between these women and the average social climber is that a social climber values money above all else. A woman in the latter category has money as one of her baseline standards, but it’s not the only standard. He must pass numerous other tests first. That’s why so many rich men can not date these women, because they have much higher standards. They won’t date a man that owns a successful plumbing business, for example, because he generally would not be educated enough for her. They won’t date any rich man.

    Anyway, don’t know why you bothered posting that video. The girl i’m with now is attracted to me and my personality, oddly enough, and the money–which she found out about much later–is just a bonus.

    • June 6, 2012 at 10:52 am #

      the title should be ‘why wealthy, educated, and cultured men should not date Australian women’? ;-)

      That’s a nice title for an Intentious article!

      and a cultured, well educated woman that is accustomed to living a certain lifestyle….
      these are the women that men with money ought to be targeting if they want to get married

      I would say the difference, practically, is a lot less than you realise. Point taken that there are “classy” women that are “worth” dating, and I get that. But if you have to “spend money” to get these women, and you have to “spend money” to get the attention of a rinser… aren’t you squandering dosh in both cases?

      Instead of trying to be a “rich man dating a classy woman” (ie the same tribe), why don’t you become a member of “a tribe she wants to visit.” E.g. you could be a bikie that takes her on adventures, you could be her toyboy, you could be the professor who is really smart and she finds fascinating. All three of which don’t require money to ensnare her. It is possible. How often do you see a good looking girl dating a tool? Often, I’d say!

      So there is an implicit trap in your mind still, that you need money to attract certain women. I tell you solemnly, watch the video again until that trap no longer exists. You don’t need to be in the same tribe to ensnare her. The smart man with money would keep his money and still get the girl. If you’re using money, you are compensating for lack of game!

      The latter are in short supply in Australia,

      I would contend to you that guys who are socially intelligent and agreeable are rarer than these women. I have no shortage of attractive female friends who can’t find the right man, and who keep dating Mr wrong, Mr wrong Mr wrong. Mr Right is rarer. In fact, by saying that “these women are rare” is self-sabotaging.

      They won’t date a man that owns a successful plumbing business, for example, because he generally would not be educated enough for her. They won’t date any rich man.

      I will repeat again because it’s worth saying: you should either be in the same tribe, or a tribe she wants to visit

      That is actually independent of how “classy” a woman actually is. If you want to date a hot bogan, “same tribe or tribe she wants to visit” would still apply. A “classy” girl may not like dating plumbers, for example. But if the plumber was at a black tie banquet, and acted the part…

      Anyway, don’t know why you bothered posting that video.

      It is proof as to why one shouldn’t use money to attract women. Fools and their money are soon parted.

      The girl i’m with now is attracted to me and my personality, oddly enough, and the money–which she found out about much later–is just a bonus.

      Great for you! That is how it should be played in the first place. You have disproved your own contention that, “you need money to attract classy women…”, your paramour finding out about the money later is proof of that.

      That being said… do you have any other points that you haven’t shot down yourself?

      I’d say that you don’t know the qualitative difference between a generalisation and a stereotype. Generalisations have a place in cultural analysis; stereotypes, on the other hand, do not.

      I would say that they are synonyms and that, in this case, “stereotyping” is the appropriate perjorative word to describe your view of the fairer gender.

  40. Bios
    June 7, 2012 at 9:32 pm #

    “But if you have to “spend money” to get these women, and you have to “spend money” to get the attention of a rinser… aren’t you squandering dosh in both cases?”

    Nope, since i would only spend the money earned as income from assets, which is ultimately ‘replaceable’ ;-)

    “I would contend to you that guys who are socially intelligent and agreeable are rarer than these women. I have no shortage of attractive female friends who can’t find the right man, and who keep dating Mr wrong, Mr wrong Mr wrong. Mr Right is rarer. In fact, by saying that “these women are rare” is self-sabotaging.”

    What other qualities do these women have going for them? I agree that a lot of Australian men fall short, but to me that is a cultural problem. It’s a limitation of Australian culture. The people are limited because the culture is limited. Yet for some reason, the women like to act like they are ‘above’ Australian men. This is a completely delusional belief in most cases. As i’ve said before, the problem is feminist entitlement, and to really understand how the bad the problem is here, you have to live in a country that is relatively free from this kind of influence. Unfortunately, if your view of the world is limited to the Anglosphere, as is the case for most Australians, you just can’t appreciate the full extent of the problem.

    There is nowhere else to go with this really. We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

    “Great for you! That is how it should be played in the first place. You have disproved your own contention that, “you need money to attract classy women…”, your paramour finding out about the money later is proof of that.

    That being said… do you have any other points that you haven’t shot down yourself?”

    No, because i was talking about Australian women, and speaking in generalities. There are always exceptions, and my gf is foreign. We are now engaged by the way. I proposed last weekend.

    Enjoyed the exchange. Thanks. Take care.

    • June 8, 2012 at 8:09 am #

      Nope, since i would only spend the money earned as income from assets, which is ultimately ‘replaceable’ ;-)

      My original point still stands, that it’s not necessary to spend all that much money at all to get a clasy lady. You are proof of that. By not spending that money, you can be sure that you are not wasting money on a rinser.

      What other qualities do these women have going for them?

      They are attractive women, with long lines of suitors. Unfortunately with the long line of suitors, each has proved lacking.

      I agree that a lot of Australian men fall short, but to me that is a cultural problem. It’s a limitation of Australian culture. The people are limited because the culture is limited.

      This has been disproved because the girls I talk to are not just from Australian culture, but different cultures.

      Yet for some reason, the women like to act like they are ‘above’ Australian men.

      It has nothing to do with “Australian” at all. These women act above because they have a long line of suitors and have the luxury of choice. I wouldn’t be enthused by Australian men either if they turn up in singlets, love to drink beer and only shower once a week. I remember talking to one girl, and her first and last date with an Australian man was because he smelled. You can be an Australian and do none of those things.

      As i’ve said before, the problem is feminist entitlement, and to really understand how the bad the problem is here, you have to live in a country that is relatively free from this kind of influence.

      You are projecting again. Looking for enemies where there are none. If you see love as a battlefield, all you will find are enemies. The feminists are rarer than you think.

      I proposed last weekend.

      Oh, Congratulations! I’m glad you found a keeper. Hopefully I will find one soon too.

  41. Cicely
    August 3, 2012 at 1:04 am #

    Omg, I’m actually one of those naturally ridiculously hot girls and I’ve been attractive all my life. While I’m aware that I have landed some jobs due to being cute but I also know I’m very well spoken so I use both to my advantage. Anyone should use their strengths to their advantage. The problem is the distraction I can cause at work. I forgo heals because I look to dam hot even to myself. I stopped flat ironing my hair because I saw that ever one gave me a double take some good and from women some not so good. I always wear my glasses to work to be taken seriously. None of that has worked. Even in flats, glasses and naturally curly pulled up hair I’m still painfully attractive. I even experience that the guy who I am an assistant to deliberately tries to keep his distance. I suspect because he doesn’t want it to look like he really likes me as a person because on the outside other people would always suspect in the back of their minds that what if something was between them or he likes her because she’s cute. I know this because he is very friendly with all the other women in the office except me. I hurts because I like him as a person but I feel rebuffed by him. He is married so I wonder if he is protecting himself there as well. Anyway I have my whole life story of experiences to back up is womans claim. Our looks are a gift at times and a curse for life. I suspect I’ll end up lonely in the end. Yep, most guys are only into my looks then when I start to like them I’m told it won’t work. I don’t think they want the lifelong attention of heads turning whenever we walk in a room because of me. Also they probably don’t want the threat of other men pawning over me for fear I might take their advances.

    But reading this article and others like this now has opened my eyes. I just did a google search after wondering if it was all in my head or if my looks really were holding me back in life. It’s not in my head. It’s very real and there may be some discrimination aspects to it as well. Good or bad.

    Thank you for bringing this to light! I’ve just now decided to look my best for me, I will flat iron my hair, I will wear contacts and a little lipstick and to hell with all the intimidated jerks, I’m doing it for me now because it makes me feel good to look good just like a normal person feels and wants to do.

    Don’t assume we are conceited or aloof. We are typically insecure but just don’t want to reveal it. We’ve been conditioned to keep our guards up even if that means we look like bitches. We really aren’t. I’m the sweetest person you could ever meet once I trust you really like me for me. I’m also highly intelligent and I’m ready to start reaching my full potential as I should have done years ago.

    • August 3, 2012 at 5:14 pm #

      not sure if trolling.

      Are you dating the man you want to be dating?

    • Jessica
      August 23, 2012 at 10:45 am #

      Same here. Well said.

  42. someone
    October 3, 2012 at 3:40 am #

    Beautiful people ACTUALLY are discriminated, but not the comun beautiful faces….


    A visible high level of beauty, enough to call attention everywhere in comparison to, almost always, everyone, is the level of beauty that brings a high level of envy, enough for absurds to happen. Actions that come from random “good” citizens.


    It’s when you require your rights but people is prohibiting you.
    Maybe you just want to buy something, get a taxi, get a job, study, and such things, but you end up doing those under DIFFICULTY. You can make it look normal under the eyes of lower intelligence, the point is that when you’re not responsable, you shouldn’t even talk.


    Then if you find your self under stress (in case you don’t have sociopath genes), the psychologist won’t admit to you, the fact, and will try to pretend it’s your mind or brain’s fault, wich is criminal. To solve a problem, the problem gotta be solved, if it’s NOT what a professional is working on propositaly, the professional is a criminal. Not hard to become a criminal sometimes, not only the neighbor, or the TV guy, many times it can be you.


    And just to highlight, the woman from those pictures is not even what I could call beautiful, at any level.


    IF people deffend their envy, for the biological sake of the envy.
    If they developed a proud that comes from the action of feeling envy, then what they wish or want doesn’t need to be required, but their brains need effective therapy.


    If an engineer killed the envy located in your brain, you will “suddenly” change your mind about attacking someone you felt “reason” to hate. Isn’t it interesting? Are you aware enough?


    When you have opinion, sometimes you’re just representing an instinct you can’t runaway from, you can’t even want to do so, because you’re controled by codes, but some aren’t acceptable for today’s moral KNOWLEDGE. That’s something I call evolution.

  43. Anonymous
    October 7, 2012 at 10:04 am #

    It’s upsetting. I am experiencing bullying and old fashioned methods of isolation. I cannot help it if the way of life in this part of the world is nicotine stained fingernails, groggy skinned beer bellied men and women are of a similar appearance with a penchant for a weekend in “the ale’ouse” not a “bar” …” the ale’ouse”. Conform or be banished forever! Is there a Doctor in the house? It is a very strange little town. I’ll be glad to move on.

  44. lmyya
    October 17, 2012 at 12:19 pm #

    There is something missing in this article: the hostility very beautiful women receive from men. The article fleetingly mentions that men will think something like “what’s the use, she’s out of my league” and not ask a beautiful woman out. But often, women who (to be crude) pass the realm of approachably pretty into intimidatingly, truly uniquely beautiful will receive more grief than niceties from men. Not that I am the only example, but I have been told I’m unapproachable, and likened to French actresses or high fashion models, though I am a down-to-earth farm-raised bleeding heart working on my public interest profession. I know I look good without makeup or frills and that I turn heads. And men have been at least as rude to me as women– not all men of course, but large numbers of them. It pisses them off that I would pre-reject them, before they’ve even asked. It pisses some off (I know because more than one has matured a bit and confessed it) that I would “look like [I] do” and still follow my heart and my profession, rather than somehow “use” my looks. Yes, I and my beautiful sisters have had the experiences with women that the article mentions. But men can be just as prideful and just as catty. Another downside is the awkward level of intense interest everyone takes in your life if you stand out by being good-looking. Not polite interest or support, but blatant, salivating gossipy interest. But very beautiful women who have been gorgeous all their lives? They are always nice to me and I to them. Real men who genuinely like women and don’t get their egos invested? They like me, and I them. Women from other cultures? Women who have good relationships with their sisters? Women who chose a real man (i.e., someone secure in himself who really loves his partner) and are happy with him? All make great friends for the “intimidatingly” beautiful woman. I would say such people comprise all my friends– I don’t really have any shallow or insecure ones anymore. In closing, that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

  45. Bios
    October 24, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

    LMYYA: If you aren’t trolling, here goes:

    “And men have been at least as rude to me as women– not all men of course, but large numbers of them. It pisses them off that I would pre-reject them, before they’ve even asked.”

    Again, this is because really good looking Australian women tend to be bitches. In some other countries this isn’t necessarily the case.They will talk to you, hang out with you, even if they aren’t necessarily interested in dating. Australian women are not really like that, as a general rule, so you are being pre-judged, which is unfair, no doubt, but it’s a relatively safe assumption for men to make in this country.

    Men also assume–quite rightly–that great looking women are looking to take advantage of them if they aren’t good looking or typical alphas. Again, this is generally the case.

  46. Iamme123
    November 26, 2012 at 1:58 am #

    Just think…in a few more years she won’t have to worry about that anymore! Age is always the great equalizer, ya never hear older people taking like this! Everyone has problems, most would love to have this
    as one of they’re major problems…maybe she should just enjoy it while it lasts.

  47. December 1, 2012 at 5:15 am #

    I know exactly where the columnist is coming from. I have delt with this for years in the workplace and experienced it in college. I vowed years ago to only work for a man, but it doesn’t work because women make up most of the workforce now. The story about the girl who was fired at Citi for being too cute may sound outrageous but I was just let go at a bank for being too cute. I followed the dress code to a T. They always say it’s performance, they can’t say “you are prettier than the people here so you don’t fit in.” I temped for years because of this.

    • Jimbo
      December 2, 2012 at 10:32 am #

      LOL :They always say it’s performance”… Perhaps you should lift your game and stop checking yourself out in the mirror then.

  48. Anonymous
    December 31, 2012 at 10:31 am #

    It is legal in Iowa now to fire a woman simply because she is pretty. I think pretty females are actually treatred worse than unattractive females because other females cannot stand them and males retailiate against them when they do not act like sex toys. There is nothing protecting their rights, and contrary to what people believe, attractive females are fired more and earn less than females who are less attractive with the same qualifications. They may also be more likely to be abused because abusive males are attracted to insecure females; attractive females are so heavily criticised that they have greater self-esteem problems and are more likely to be in abusive relationships that females who are less attractive.

  49. Christina
    January 21, 2013 at 9:36 am #

    Thank you so much for writing this. After quite some time of being discriminated against and being treated differently, despite the fact that I am very warm, kind, and social, I finally came to the realization that it may have to do with my looks. I have a healthy amount of confidence but far from vain. I rarely wear makeup and my outfits are classy and sophisticated but never showy or promiscuous. I am 29 and newly single and many of my close friends have left the area and through trying to branch out and meet new friends and get back in to dating at a somewhat awkward age (most everybody is married and starting a family) I have had an awfully difficult time being approached by anybody or receiving any kind of response when I try to strike up conversation with a would-be friend. I would like to think that I have a warm and approachable exterior as I greet everybody with a smile and I am cordial, but people dart their eyes or fail to even respond when I ask, “Hi there, how are you doing?” It is so blatant when people in front and behind me in line at a store receive the everyday niceties that I wasn’t extended at all. I’m starting to get very depressed because I’m finding that men and women don’t want to give me a chance at friendship or dating because my looks are apparently intimidating. If they only got to talking with me they would realize that although I am fortunate to have what society deems “good genes,” I am a complete nerd, ridiculously goofy, have dealt with a tremendous amount of adversity, and I am a very loving and compassionate person. This has been especially hurtful with trying to make new friends with other women. I can understand on some level about men being intimidated and feeling reluctant to talk to me because dating in general is daunting and terrifying. However, when women are insecure with themselves or just simply catty or jealous and they either ignore me or act smug and rude to me – it so incredibly hurtful. It’s actually destroying my self esteem at such a vulnerable time when I am eager to forge quality friendships. I keep trying to reassure myself by saying, “well, it’s their personal issue if they are insecure or jealous, don’t take it personally, these are not the kind of people you want to associate with anyway if they are going to judge and have preconceived notions.” Easier said than done. I shouldn’t have to change the way I dress or carry myself in order to earn respect. Why can’t people just be polite, warm, and welcoming regardless of appearance?

  50. AmIaLiberal
    February 4, 2013 at 5:28 pm #

    Seriously, from where cometh the men-who-hate women trolls? If you hate women so much why do you spend so much time on this site? I want to say, “Get a life,” but obviously that’s impossible for those guys. Problem is, they’ve had so many problems with women they feel the need to vent on some lady’s blog because they can’t handle face-to-face interactions with women. Sad really.

    Wonder how they have so much free time to post repeated attacks on sites like this.

    Perhaps they’re paid trolls. Seen a lot of them on the web lately. They post on “liberal” web sites and seem to be trying to shut down dissent or opinions that don’t fit the conservative, Republican mold by intimidating people in the comments section. I doubt they’re paid much. Pathetic creatures really.

    • Richard Lee
      February 5, 2013 at 2:52 am #

      I find it amusing that you believe anyone who has a conservative leaning obviously are “paid trolls” and obviously should be silenced because their opinion is different from yours. It’s almost as bad as the reverse “reds under the bed”

  51. FormerlyPretty
    February 4, 2013 at 6:02 pm #

    Thank you for having the courage to write about this. Sorry that you’re getting trolled. You’re speaking about something that no one else is talking about and, unfortunately, some people have trouble hearing new ideas. (They’re used to being fed the same old, same old mindless entertainment nonsense by the corporate media.)

    I too have suffered from this. The author isn’t being egotistical at all. In fact, I never thought of myself as “pretty,” so it took me a long time, many years, b4 I realized that I was being discriminated against because of my looks. Women at work are often hostile and bullying. Men sometimes are hostile too. I’ve learned over time that some men are attracted to me and feel uncomfortable w/that so they project their feelings onto me. I’ve dealt w/men who nervously repeat to me, “I have a girlfriend, I have a girlfriend” as if I care. I feel like saying, “Look, I’m not attracted to you, I’m just your coworker, so don’t worry.”

    A lot of men are not in touch w/their emotions, so when they feel guilty about being attracted to another woman, they tend to project their feelings onto her rather than face emotions they feel uncomfortable with. I was sexually harassed at one job and the guy finally attempted to rape me. The women I worked with blamed me. Only a few of my male coworkers stood up for me and tried to stop this guy from harassing me at work. My boss, a woman, did nothing to stop this guy, and that is why the harassment escalated to an attempted rape. I quit the job once I was assaulted because I didn’t feel safe working there. He, of course, still had a job.

    I’ve been rejected by potential employers ’cause of this. A wife or girlfriend meets me and feels uncomfortable w/her husband working with an “attractive” female. I was not interested in being a “sex kitten” or a mistress but wanted to be respected for my talents and abilities at work, so I wasn’t flirtatious and I don’t even wear a lot of makeup. Unfortunately, I learned the hard way that it just isn’t possible for women in today’s society. Either you use your looks by sleeping your way to the top and playing the sex object role or you get hostility from sexually-frustrated & insecure men who don’t know how to relate to you as just a person, just a coworker or employee. I think our society has a lot of hangups when it comes to women’s sexuality and the so-called “women’s movement” hasn’t changed that one iota.

    Oh yes, and I’ve had the experience of just walking down a street minding my own business and a woman, a complete stranger, walking past me and giving me the most dirty look imaginable because of my…uh…breasts. Yep, I’m a woman, so I have breasts. Sorry. I’m naturally ‘well-endowed’ I guess you could say. But I’m not a glamor girl. As I said, I don’t wear a lot of makeup and when this happened to me I was wearing a t-shirt and jeans–not particularly sexy.

    So yes, women are socialized to hate each other. But this is true of any oppressed group in society. Sociology 101: the oppressed fight among each other to gain approval of the oppressor. Unfortunately, in this age of rugged individualism, there aren’t many Americans who are knowledgeable on the subject of sociology.

    One last bit of advice perhaps: I’ve noticed that women who are overweight or insecure about their appearance in some way are usually hostile to me but women who are very attractive usually are not. So now, I have a few female friends who are considered to be “very pretty” by society’s standards and I know I can trust them. They don’t get catty with me, aren’t hostile, etc., because they know they’re pretty. So while I like to be open to being friends with everyone regardless of what they look like, I’ve just learned that I have to be careful with women who are unattractive. I guess it’s a matter of spending time w/people who are on your level. If you’re pretty, hang out w/other pretty females. If you’re smart, hang out w/other smart people. Honestly, I hate to be that way but I’ve just learned from experience that if a woman isn’t perceived as attractive as I am she’s going to be hostile to me. Oddly, I think that as I get older and less attractive I’ll probably have fewer problems with catty female friends, but then, of course, I’ll deal with more age discrimination… Again, nothing has changed for women and, as the trolls on this site demonstrate, it looks like nothing ever will.

    Best advice: Move to Sweden.

    • kati
      February 9, 2013 at 6:26 am #

      Samantha Brick, thank you for writing this article, and having the courage to withstand so much backlash! I myself would not have the guts to say what you said, because i’d be afraid. Last year, I was fired from my job from a new female boss. I believe it was because of the way I look.

      I’ve also had to deal with a catti female coworker in my other job, and I’m just now realizing it’s all because of my “perfectly symetrical” face, and proportionate body. I don’t go around thinking about how beautiful I am every minute of the day, but apparently, other people just assume that I do. They just assume that I know I’m gorgeous, and they think that’s a reason to be catti towards me. Men assume that I”m a stuck up bitch because I don’t flirt with men ever.

      I have plenty of female friends who are very dear to me – and so that’s why I never understood why a certain few other females were so hostile to me.

      Now I realize, that I must have compassion toward other women who hate me because I’m beautiful. It’s because they know they will never look like me, and that makes them feel very insecure about themselves.

      And no, I am not a narcissist or conceited. In fact, I make it a point to always dress down when I go out in public on a normal day. I wear pants, and a sweater so no one can see my chest. I wear glasses, and put my hair in a tight bun, with oil in it so it will look greasy.

      I’ve decided I’m not going to let other women’s attitude toward me bother me anymore. They are simply acting out their own pain, insecurities, jealousy – and I will not take it on anymore.

  52. EasterBunnyZ
    February 20, 2013 at 4:42 am #

    kati – I do the same! I also put on weight (not to get less attention, I just love my chocolate) and this helped deflect attention too but not completely. If you’re curvy, you just become more curvy with fat and some men like that.

    I have to say, I’ve seen Samantha Brick on TV and although she seems like a lovely woman, I don’t think she really believes what she’s saying about herself. I think she knows her time of youth is running out and as a way to hold onto her power, she wrote this article as a sort of self-congratulatory letter of love that will remain for posterity so that one day she can show it to her grandkids and opine how sexy she used to be. I notice how at the end, she says, “I can’t wait for the wrinkles and grey hairs..” So she’s not giving herself any room to regret the passing of her looks. She’s missing all the attention she used to get now that she’s past 40 and decided a reflective piece about how heartbreakingly gorgeous she was, combined with an expression of how redundant she considers her looks to be, was the best way to retain her position in the pecking order she’s been led to believe she dominates.

    I don’t wish to sound harsh but pretty much all of my closest friends would rate much higher in attractiveness than Ms Brick – most of them are perfect 10s – and they have all managed to find and keep female friends. They are loved and valued by women. I don’t know. Maybe I’m just lucky enough to have found some of the nicest people on the planet to spend my time with. But I feel sorry for Samantha; her life could be so much more profound.

  53. ivelisse ledesma
    April 12, 2013 at 10:23 pm #

    Ist crazy when people are so ignorent about goodlooking women.I feel u girl its rlly stress full about ppl being so jelouse off ur look.’s have faith in jesus, that he leads u through the right road meeting good ppl pray everytime and god protects u and ur family god bless u …..

  54. Telling The Truth
    April 13, 2013 at 5:32 am #

    what is very sad nowadays is that the women that do think they are all that, are certainly not.

  55. May 6, 2013 at 10:04 pm #

    Hmm it seems like your blog ate my first comment (it was extremely long)
    so I guess I’ll just sum it up what I had written and say, I’m thoroughly enjoying your blog.
    I too am an aspiring blog writer but I’m still new to everything. Do you have any tips for beginner blog writers? I’d definitely appreciate it.

  56. Anonymous
    May 16, 2013 at 1:14 am #

    Hilarious. Blame the world for their attitude towards you instead of maybe accepting that the plethora of people who have a uniform reaction to how you are might be down to your own actions/behaviour and then attribute it to jealousy.

    • keith
      May 16, 2013 at 4:10 am #

      Jealousy about looks is instant, doesn’t require any other factor to begin undermining right away. Jealousy? There’s no greater motivator for attack.

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